• Animats 4 hours ago

    That's fascinating.

    The article points out that nobody made a movie about this guy. That's mostly because a movie about someone who's an expert at building organizations is boring. Nobody ever made a biopic about Charles Wilson, head of defense production at General Motors during WWII, and later US Secretary of Defense. Hyman Rickover, who headed the 1950s effort to build nuclear submarines and warships, only has a low budget 2021 documentary. Malcom McLean, who converted the world to containerized shipping and made low-cost imports possible, never got a movie.

    Those three people each changed the world more than any celebrity. They're well known in business history. MBAs study them. There are biographies. But no movie.

    • jjk166 an hour ago

      There are biopic films about people who founded or transformed businesses like Steve Jobs, Roy Kroc, Mark Zuckerberg, the founders of Blackberry, etc. Might not be everyone's cup of tea but I wouldn't describe that genre as boring. Probably the bigger issue is getting people to see a biopic about someone who isn't already a household name.

      • Apocryphon an hour ago

        And if Qian is truly comparable to Oppenheimer, well...

      • Apocryphon an hour ago

        But they did make a biopic about a Charles Wilson and a war:

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Wilson%27s_War_(film)

        • Animats an hour ago

          That one, about a member of Congress, has a sex scene in a hot tub. It had movie potential.

          The Roy Krock movie worked because audiences understand McDonalds. Trying to explain the relationship between R&D policy and defense spending is much tougher. Although see Heinlein's "Destination Moon".

          • Apocryphon 15 minutes ago

            I don't deny that a lot of the examples given are either of people behind relatable everyday products and brands, or world-shaping historical events that every laymen has some inkling of. Or that in Congressman Wilson's case, a colorful and flamboyant personality beyond the potential 9/11 connection.

            Certainly when it comes to WWII era technocratic bureaucrat-administrator types I'd be more interested in, say, a film about the National Recovery Administration's first Director Hugh S. Johnson, who was a bit of a crank and flame-out and perhaps had extremist views of modern day political salience. (I don't think he had anything to do with the alleged Business Plot, but a movie can easily evoke it and hey, Smedley Butler appearance as a character.)

            But yeah, a movie about an administrator who was simply competent and important in an abstract systems-based way without personal drama or controversy does seem somewhat difficult to turn into a full-fledged biopic. Maybe a PBS mini-series?

        • SideburnsOfDoom an hour ago

          > That's mostly because a movie about someone who's an expert at building organizations is boring.

          Well, part of the Oppenheimer biopic is about J. Robert being thrust into that kind of role.

          > Oppenheimer ... rapidly learned the art of large-scale administration after he took up permanent residence at Los Alamos.

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Robert_Oppenheimer#Los_Alam...

        • PaulHoule 6 hours ago

          What became JPL had numerous colorful characters who had trouble with the security apparatus not least

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Parsons

          who invented modern composite solid rockets and was also a collaborator of Aleister Crowley and L. Ron Hubbard.

          • madaxe_again 34 minutes ago

            “Parsons again resorted to bootlegging nitroglycerin for money”

            How does this man not have a movie?

          • arjie 5 hours ago

            An error rate of 0 is unachievable. Given that, it’s a question of your tolerance for error and the consequences of the opposite kind of error. Given the numbers of people involved in the exchange the comparative value must have been quite clear to both parties.

            The Chinese outcome was not nearly so certain even in 1990, half a century after the events in question. The counterfactual that China could not have indigenously achieved this also seems unlikely.

            After all, the thesis is that Chinese leaders were so organizationally intelligent that they recognized key players that could implement century-long organizational methodology improvements. Given that they could get that far, it seems unlikely that they could not take the next step: that of recreating/finding a Qian Xuesen within their own country; like we found Oppenheimer.

            Overall, this seems like a strategic choice that played off roughly at the risk control level it was aimed at. You cannot judge decisions solely by outcomes.

            • ailun 4 hours ago

              Definitely a famous story that gets retold and almost mythologized in China. When I taught over there, several different middle school students independently told me about this story.

              • 999900000999 an hour ago

                It should be a cautionary tale.

                How many geniuses are leaving the US right now due to Xenophobia?

              • MaxPock an hour ago

                Fun fact;In 1992 ,he advised Chinese leaders to focus on new energy vehicles as they would never catch up on ice. Looks like his counsel was taken as we can see the results today.

                • bwv848 43 minutes ago

                  Also fun fact, he advised Mao on agriculture during the Great Leap Forward, using rough estimates of photosynthetic efficiency to calculate potential crop yields. Those estimates were far removed from reality and indirectly contributed to the Great Chinese Famine, while other countries were benefiting from the success of the Green Revolution.

                  • contingencies 35 minutes ago

                    Central planning and heterogeneous large scale distributed agriculture don't mix.

                    • worik 16 minutes ago

                      Central planning and agriculture don't mix.

                • culi an hour ago

                  If anyone wants to listen to it without the paywall, it's just an iframe and you can literally just remove the "paywall" query param:

                  https://player.instaread.co/player?article=the-missile-geniu...

                  EDIT: it's ai if anyone is curious

                  • catigula 31 minutes ago

                    Wernher von Braun didn't have a rival/opponent nation he could betray America to.

                    Qian Xuesen did and did.

                    • feverzsj 6 hours ago

                      Qian is a typical opportunist, who had been contacting ccp since 1930s. He was already away from military and academia for years, while pouring huge sum of money into his immigration case. After deported from US, his job in China was mostly management.

                      • raincom 40 minutes ago

                        Any source for your claims?

                        • contingencies 41 minutes ago

                          Being raised by KMT and switching to CCP via the US matches this general narrative. But perhaps 'pragmatist' is more appropriate than 'opportunist'. After all, there were only so many countries with a missile program and resources for someone who speaks Mandarin and English and had a family who didn't want to learn Russian. In the interpretations I've been given, Taiwan at that stage was a mess. I think he was probably deeply hurt by the purge and would have stayed in the US and contributed further if it wasn't for the tide of McCarthyist nationalism. The US in the current era definitely has similar tones, which I have personally encountered. This warning piece comes late and may fall on deaf ears.