• lordnacho 2 hours ago

    The real question is whether the boom is, economically, a mistake.

    If AI is here to stay, as a thing that permanently increases productivity, then AI buying up all the electricians and network engineers is a (correct) signal. People will take courses in those things and try to get a piece of the winnings. Same with those memory chips that they are gobbling up, it just tells everyone where to make a living.

    If it's a flash in a pan, and it turns out to be empty promises, then all those people are wasting their time.

    What we really want to ask ourselves is whether our economy is set up to mostly get things right, or it is wastefully searching.

    • 112233 2 hours ago

      "If X is here to stay, as a thing that permanently increases productivity" - matches a lot of different X. Maintaining persons health increases productivity. Good education increases productivity. What is playing out now is completely different - it is both irresistible lust for omniscient power provided by this technology ("mirror mirror on the wall, who has recently thought bad things about me?"), and the dread of someone else wielding it.

      Plus, it makes natural moat against masses of normal (i.e. poor) people, because requires a spaceship to run. Finally intelligence can also be controlled by capital the way it was meant to, joining information, creativity, means of production, communication and such things

      • mattgreenrocks 2 hours ago

        > Plus, it makes natural moat against masses of normal (i.e. poor) people, because requires a spaceship to run. Finally intelligence can also be controlled by capital the way it was meant to, joining information, creativity, means of production, communication and such things

        I'd put intelligence in quotes there, but it doesn't detract from the point.

        It is astounding to me how willfully ignorant people are being about the massive aggregation of power that's going on here. In retrospect, I don't think they're ignorant, they just haven't had to think about it much in the past. But this is a real problem with very real consequences. Sovereignty must be occasionally be asserted, or someone will infringe upon it.

        That's exactly what's happening here.

        • strken an hour ago

          The difference is that we've more or less hit a stable Pareto front in education and healthcare. Gains are small and incremental; if you pour more money into one place and less into another, you generally don't end up much better off, although you can make small but meaningful improvements in select areas. You can push the front forward slightly with new research and innovation, but not very fast or far.

          The current generation of AI is an opportunity for quick gains that go beyond just a few months longer lifespan or a 2% higher average grade. It is an unrealised and maybe unrealistic opportunity, but it's not just greed and lust for power that pushes people to invest, it's hope that this time the next big thing will make a real difference. It's not the same as investing more in schools because it's far less certain but also has a far higher alleged upside.

          • KellyCriterion an hour ago

            > if you pour more money into one place and less into another, you generally don't end up much better off, although you can make small but meaningful improvements in select areas

            "Marginal cost barrier" hit, then?

        • jleyank 2 hours ago

          They still gotta figure out how their consumers will get the cash to consume. Toss all the developers and a largish cohort of well-paid people head towards the dole.

          • rybosworld an hour ago

            Yeah I don't think this get's enough attention. It still requires a technical person to use these things effectively. Building coherent systems that solve a business problem is an iterative process. I have a hard time seeing how an LLM could climb that mountain on it's own.

            I don't think there's a way to solve the issue of: one-shotted apps will increasingly look more convincing, in the same way that the image generation looks more convincing. But when you peel back the curtain, that output isn't quite correct enough to deploy to production. You could try brute-force vibe iterating until it's exactly what you wanted, but that rarely works for anything that isn't a CRUD app.

            Ask any of the image generators to build you a sprite sheet for a 2d character with multiple animation frames. I have never gotten one to do this successfully in one prompt. Sometimes the background will be the checkerboard png transparency layer. Except, the checkers aren't all one color (#000000, #ffffff), instead it's a million variations of off-white and off-black. The legs in walking frames are almost never correct, etc.

            And even if they get close - as soon as you try to iterate on the first output, you enter a game of whack-a-mole. Okay we fixed the background but now the legs don't look right, let's fix those. Okay great legs are fixed but now the faces are different in every frame let's fix those. Oh no fixing the faces broke the legs again, Etc.

            We are in a weird place where companies are shedding the engineers that know how to use these things. And some of those engineers will become solo-devs. As a solo-dev, funds won't be infinite. So it doesn't seem likely that they can jack up the prices on the consumer plans. But if companies keep firing developers, then who will actually steer the agents on the enterprise plans?

            • KellyCriterion 37 minutes ago

              esp when it comes down to integration with the rest of the business processes & people aroud this "single apps" :-)

            • oblio an hour ago

              At some point rich people stop caring about money and only care about power.

              • willis936 an hour ago

                It's a fun thought, but you know what we call those people? Poor. The people who light their own money on fire today are ceding power. The two are the same.

            • Archelaos an hour ago

              In 2024, global GDP was $111 trillion.[1] Investing 1 or 2 % of that to improve global productivity via AI does not seem exaggerated to me.

              [1] https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.MKTP.CD

              • forinti 2 hours ago

                I know that all investments have risk, but this is one risky gamble.

                US$700 billion could build a lot of infrastructure, housing, or manufacturing capacity.

                • tomjen3 2 hours ago

                  There is no shortage of money to build housing. There is an abundance of regulatory burdens in places that are desirable to live in.

                  Its not due to a lack of money that housing in SF is extremely expensive.

                  • ajam1507 an hour ago

                    SF is not the only place where housing is expensive. There are plenty of cities where they could build more housing and they don't because it isn't profitable or because they don't have the workers to build more, not because the government is telling them they can't.

                  • unsupp0rted 2 hours ago

                    What $700 billion can't do is cure cancers, Parkinsons, etc. We know because we've tried and that's barely a sliver of what it's cost so far, for middling results.

                    Whereas $700 billion in AI might actually do that.

                    • wolfram74 2 hours ago

                      Your name is well earned! "can't cure cancers" is impressively counterfactual [0] as 5 year survival of cancer diagnosis is up over almost all categories. Despite every cancer being a unique species trying to kill you, we're getting better and better at dealing with them.

                      [0]https://www.cancer.org/research/acs-research-news/people-are...

                      • XCSme 2 hours ago

                        Treating cancer is not the same as curing it. Currently, no doctor would ever tell you you are "cured", just that you are in remission.

                        • unsupp0rted 2 hours ago

                          Yes, we're getting better at treating cancers, but still if a person gets cancer, chances are good the thing they'll die of is cancer. Middling results.

                          Because we're not good at curing cancers, we're just good at making people survive better for longer until the cancer gets them. 5 year survival is a lousy metric but it's the best we can manage and measure.

                          I'm perfectly happy investing roughly 98% of my savings into the thing that has a solid shot at curing cancers, autoimmune and neurodegenerative diseases. I don't understand why all billionaires aren't doing this.

                          • minifridge an hour ago

                            How AI will cure neurodegenerative diseases and cancer?

                            • unsupp0rted an hour ago

                              If we knew that we probably wouldn’t need AI to tell us.

                              But realistically: perhaps by noticing patterns we’ve failed to notice and by generating likely molecules or pathways to treatment that we hadn’t explored.

                              We don’t really know what causes most diseases anyway. Why does the Shingles vaccine seem to defend against dementia? Why does picking your nose a lot seem to increase risk of Alzheimer’s?

                              That’s the point of building something smarter than us: it can get to places we can’t get on our own, at least much faster than we could without it.

                            • beepbooptheory 2 hours ago

                              Maybe it should give you pause then, that not everyone else is investing 98% of their savings?

                              • unsupp0rted an hour ago

                                It gives me pause that most people drive cars or are willing to sit in one for more than 20 minutes a week.

                                But people accept the status quo and are afraid to take a moment’s look into the face of their own impending injury, senescence and death: that’s how our brains are wired to survive and it used to make sense evolutionarily until about 5 minutes ago.

                              • danaris an hour ago

                                Ah, yes: "well, we can't cure cancer or autoimmune and neurodegenerative diseases, but I'm willing to invest basically all my money into a thing that's...trained on the things we know how to do already, and isn't actually very good at doing any of them."

                                ...Meanwhile, we are developing techniques to yes, cure some kinds of cancer, as in every time they check back it's completely gone, without harming healthy tissue.

                                We are developing "anti-vaccines" for autoimmune diseases, that can teach our bodies to stop attacking themselves.

                                We are learning where some of the origins of the neurodegenerative diseases are, in ways that makes treating them much more feasible.

                                So you're 100% wrong about the things we can't do, and your confidence in what "AI" can do is ludicrously unfounded.

                                • unsupp0rted 43 minutes ago

                                  Every doctor and researcher in the world is trained on things we already know how to do already.

                                  I’m not claiming we haven’t made a dent. I’m claiming I’m in roughly as much danger from these things right now as any human ever has been: middling results.

                                  If we can speed up the cures by even 1%, that’s cumulatively billions of hours of human life saved by the time we’re done.

                                  • danaris 25 minutes ago

                                    But what they can do, that AI can't, is try new things in measured, effective, and ethical ways.

                                    And that hypothetical "billions of hours of human life saved" has to be measured against the actual damage being done right now.

                                    Real damage to economy, environment, politics, social cohesion, and people's lives now

                                    vs

                                    Maybe, someday, we improve the speed of finding cures for diseases? In an unknown way, at an unknown time, for an unknown cost, and by an unknown amount.

                                    Who knows, maybe they'll give everyone a pony while they're at it! It seems just as likely as what you're proposing.

                                    • unsupp0rted 6 minutes ago

                                      Oh your magical screen can only output likely magic spells? It does't even have hands or a wand to try them though, and all humans are currently too occupied to wave a wand and check.

                        • somewhereoutth 2 hours ago

                          I suspect a lot of this is due to large amounts of liquidity sloshing around looking for returns. We are still dealing with the consequences of the ZIRP (Zero Interest Rate Policy) and QE (Quantitative Easing) where money to support the economy through the Great Financial Crisis and Covid was largely funneled in to the top, causing the 'everything bubble'. The rich got (a lot) richer, and now have to find something to do with that wealth. The immeasurable returns promised by LLMs (in return for biblical amounts of investment) fits that bill very well.

                          • undefined 2 hours ago
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                            • mcphage 2 hours ago

                              > What we really want to ask ourselves is whether our economy is set up to mostly get things right, or it is wastefully searching.

                              I can’t speak to the economy as a whole, but the tech economy has a long history of bubbles and scams. Some huge successes, too—but gets it wrong more often than it gets it right.

                            • bm3719 2 hours ago

                              This is the trade-off to connectivity and removing frictional barriers (i.e., globalism). This is the economic equivalent of what Nick Land and Spandrell called the "IQ shredder". Spandrell said of Singapore:

                                Singapore is an IQ shredder. It is an economically productive metropolis that
                                sucks in bright and productive minds with opportunities and amusements at the
                                cost of having a demographically unsustainable family unit.
                              
                              Basically, if you're a productive person, you want to maximize your return. So, you go where the action is. So does every other smart person. Often that place is a tech hub, which is now overflowing with smart guys. Those smart guys build adware (or whatever) and fail to reproduce (combined, these forces "shred" the IQ). Meanwhile every small town is brain-drained. You hometown's mayor is 105 IQ because he's the smartest guy in town. Things don't work that great, and there's a general stagnation to the place.

                              Right now, AI is a "capital shredder". In the past, there were barriers everywhere, and we've worked hard to tear those down. It used to be that the further the distance (physically, but also in other senses too, like currencies, language, culture, etc.), the greater the friction to capital flows. The local rich guy would start a business in his town. Now he sends it to one of the latest global capital attractors, which have optimized for capital inflow. This mechanism works whether the attractor can efficiently use that capital or not. That resource inflow might be so lucrative, that managing inflow is the main thing it does. Right now that's AI, but as long as present structure continues, this is how the machine of the global economy will work.

                              • malfist 2 hours ago

                                This is hogwash. It's incel and eugenic reasoning wrapped up all together.

                                Not every smart person (or even most) are engineers, and of the ones that are they don't all move to tech hubs, and the ones that do not all of them can't get laid.

                                And I'll give you a great reason why it's hogwash, the "brilliant" engineers that can't get laid in Singapore are the same "brilliant" engineers that can't get laid in their home town

                                • bm3719 an hour ago

                                  We can blame the individual for the cost we've outsourced into him. When he collapses under that load, we can attribute it to personal shortcomings. Some people survive, even thrive, in the current environment, after all. We've coalesced a plurality of games into a single one, and in a sense, it works great. We have our smartphones, AI, online shopping, and targeted advertising.

                                  Notepad now has Copilot built right into it, after all. That wasn't going to happen by now if we took the human psyche as a given and built around that.

                                  • g8oz 31 minutes ago

                                    >>It's incel and eugenic reasoning wrapped up all together.

                                    More like French post-structuralism.

                                    • 9dev an hour ago

                                      …not to mention they are completely ignoring the existence of smart girls as well

                                      • Forgeties79 2 hours ago

                                        It’s the same nonsense as people going “Idiocracy is a documentary.“ Of course none of them think they’re the idiots.

                                      • wodenokoto an hour ago

                                        What amazes me about this theory is that being the 115 IQ guy in a town where the next guy is 105 isn’t better than being the 115 IQ guy in and office averaging 120.

                                        Or put more plainly, being a big fish in a small pond is not better than being a small fish.

                                        • dyauspitr 2 hours ago

                                          What’s the alternative. Keep the smart physically separated, can never collaborate to make anything paradigm shifting and we just prod along with small town paper mills and marginally better local government?

                                          • bm3719 2 hours ago

                                            Within the Landian system, I suspect he'd say the answer is economic "territorialization", the economic equivalent to the mechanism originally defined by Deleuze+Guattari in A Thousand Plateaus based on the territoriality of earlier work.

                                            It's the process where social, political, or cultural meaning is rooted in some context. It's a state of stability and boundaries. For just the economic, the geographic would likely be the centroid of that, but the other vectors are not irrelevant.

                                            One could argue that we suffer to the degree we are deterritorialized, because the effects thereof are alienating. So, we need structure that aligns both our economic and psychological needs. What we have is subordination to the machine, which will do what it's designed to: optimize for its own desire, which is machinic production.

                                            Note that none of this is inherently good/bad. Like anything, a choice has trade-offs. We definitely get more production within the current structure. The cost is born by the individual, aggregating into the social ills that are now endemic.

                                            • gom_jabbar 43 minutes ago

                                              Land himself has suggested a very anti-human solution to the problem of "IQ shredders":

                                              "The most hard-core capitalist response to this [IQ shredders] is to double-down on the antihumanist accelerationism. This genetic burn-rate is obviously unsustainable, so we need to convert the human species into auto-intelligenic robotized capital [a]s fast as possible, before the whole process goes down in flames." [0]

                                              [0] Nick Land (2014). IQ Shredders in Xenosystems Blog. Retrieved from github.com/cyborg-nomade/reignition

                                            • WillAdams 2 hours ago

                                              California had a great mechanism for this in their land grant colleges, which back before the protests of the Vietnam War were required to offer the valedictorian of nearby high schools (or the person with the highest GPA who accepted) full tuition and room and board --- then Governor Ronald Reagan shut down this program when the students had the temerity to protest the Vietnam War --- it was also grade inflation to keep students above the threshold necessary for a draft deferment which began the downward spiral of American education.

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                                                • HPsquared 2 hours ago

                                                  A little less min-maxing, perhaps.

                                                  • ppoooNN an hour ago

                                                    A cohesive culture that has strong bonds that transcend class. Rich people choosing to allocate capital in a manner that benefits them at the expense of others isn’t a new phenomenon by any means. We need rulers who value noblesse oblige. The current ones see us as cattle (the term popping up the Epstein emails so frequently is kinda funny).

                                                    “Blood and soil” is such a taboo in today’s society because it’s the solution to the problems we have. I don’t say this to be edgy. Scaling trust is the most important thing in human societies, and race, cultural history, shared religion etc are the absolute best ways to do this. Think about it this way:

                                                    Every morning men like Sam Altman wake up and decide to keep pursuing billions of dollars with no thought of how to ensure the rest of his people (because they aren’t you and me) are going to get by. He could very easily make this a core tenet of OpenAI (in a way inline with its original incarnation) and be _loved_ by the people. We don’t have a single elite that behaves this way: Musk, Trump, Altman, etc are all parasites that do not care if we live or die.

                                                    Land and co. are more or less transhumanist Thiel cronies so you’re not gonna get great analysis from them.

                                                • Kon5ole an hour ago

                                                  It's hard to comprehend the scale of these investments. Comparing them to notable industrial projects, it's almost unbelievable.

                                                  Every week in 2026 Google will pay for the cost of a Burj Khalifa. Amazon for a Wembley Stadium.

                                                  Facebook will spend a France-England tunnel every month.

                                                  • nine_zeros an hour ago

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                                                  • stego-tech 2 hours ago

                                                    This is another facet of the fierce opposition to AI by a swath of the population: it’s quite literally destroying the last bit of enjoyment we could wring from existence in the form of hobbies funded through normal employment.

                                                    Think of the PC gamers, who first dealt with COVID supply shocks, followed by crypto making GPUs scarce and untenable, then GPU makers raising prices and narrowing inventory to only the highest-end SKUs, only to outright abandon them entirely for AI - which then also consumed their RAM and SSDs. A hobby that used to be enjoyed by folks on even a modest budget is now a theft risk given the insane resale priced of parts on the second-hand market due to scarcity.

                                                    And that extends to others as well. The swaths of folks who made freelance or commission artistry work through Patreons and conventions and the like are suddenly struggling as customers and companies spew out AI slop using their work and without compensation. Tech workers, previously the wealthy patron of artisans and communities, are now being laid off en masse for AI CapEx buildouts and share pumps as investors get cold feet about what these systems are actually doing to the economy at large (definite bad, questionable good, uncertain futures).

                                                    Late stage capitalism’s sole respite was consumerism, and we can’t even do that anymore thanks to AI gobbling up all the resources and capital. It’s no wonder people are pissed at AI boosters trying to say this is a miracle technology that’ll lift everyone up: it’s already kicking people down, and nobody actually wants to admit or address that lest their investments be disrupted to protect humans.

                                                    • 9dev an hour ago

                                                      I think this started a lot earlier actually. A few generations back, many people played an instrument, or at least could sing. It didn't matter that none of them was a Mozart, because they didn't had to be. For making music or singing together in a family or a friend group, it was wholly sufficient to be just good, not necessarily great.

                                                      But when everyone has access to recordings of the world's best musicians at all times, why listen to uncle Harry's shoddy guitar play? Why sing Christmas songs together when you can put on the Sinatra Christmas jazz playlist on Spotify?

                                                      • KellyCriterion 8 minutes ago

                                                        THIS! Instrument-playing capability of a social environment: By today, I know only of one person playing a piano regularly in his club, he is the only one I know. When I was young, you had some basic instrument introduction in music classes at school - I do not know if these still exist today.

                                                        Regarding singing - I do not know a single perso who can "somehow" sing at least a little bit.

                                                        The society is loosing these capacities.

                                                        • stego-tech an hour ago

                                                          That’s definitely part of it as well, this sort of general distillation into a smaller and smaller pool of content or objects or goods that cost ever more money.

                                                          Like how most of the royalties Spotify pays out are for older catalogue stuff from “classic” artists, rather than new bands. Or how historical libraries of movies and films are constantly either up for grabs (for prestige) or being pushed off platforms due to their older/more costly royalty agreements.

                                                          With AI though, it’s the actual, tangible consumption of physical goods being threatened, which many companies involved in AI may argue is exactly the point: that everyone should be renters rather than consumers, and by making ownership expensive through cost and scarcity alike, you naturally drive more folks towards subscriptions for what used to be commodities (music, movies, games, compute, vehicles, creativity tools, TCGs, you name it).

                                                          It’s damn depressing.

                                                          • ThrowawayR2 37 minutes ago

                                                            "Comparison is the thief of joy" as they say. Some dude has the world's highest score in Pac-Man in the Guinness Book Of World Records. It doesn't mean that I can't play Pac-Man to beat my own personal high score and enjoy the process because the game is fun in it's own right.

                                                        • singingwolfboy 2 hours ago
                                                          • mrjay42 2 hours ago

                                                            This does not work for me.

                                                            It's a loop of captcha which never ends

                                                          • dev1ycan 2 hours ago

                                                            I don't think these companies buying realize how much animosity they're creating with literally everyone until it explodes on their face.

                                                            • bix6 2 hours ago

                                                              RIP Washington Post.

                                                              • semanticpop 2 hours ago

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