• stavros 2 hours ago

    Every single time someone says "there's a shortage of <profession>", you can mentally substitute it for "we can't get <profession> for cheap".

    • bko 2 hours ago

      While that's true, there is some market clearing price in which the activity just ceases to exist.

      For instance, take something with a small marginal benefit like a dedicated person at a supermarket to bag groceries. It's a nice to have but the value to the employer is probably less than a $15 minimum wage. So you could say there is a shortage of grocery baggers since there is no one willing to do it at a market clearing price.

      Doesn't mean we should do anything about it. There will always be some extra activity that would take place at a lower price, but it's worth while to notice that.

      • the_real_cher an hour ago

        That doesnt make sense to me.

        Seems like theres either a demand for something or there isnt.

        And the amount of demand sets the rate of pay.

        The invisible hand.

        • alistairSH a minute ago

          There’s a demand, but the price we want to pay for “grocery baggers” is usually less than minimum wage, so the job usually can’t (legally) exist. The cost (wage) is fixed higher than the value added.

          • frankc an hour ago

            Demand is a function of price. At any given price there is a quantity demanded. To know the price you also need to know the supply function. There is a demand for socks but if no one is will to supply socks for less a million dollars, the quantity demanded of socks at that price could be 0.

            • the_real_cher 30 minutes ago

              In most markets seems like commodity level items and services like baggers and socks would have plenty of supply.

            • philipallstar an hour ago

              In some countries there's something called a "minimum wage" that sets the minimum value of a job that is allowed to exist, and any job that isn't worth that amount ceases to exist, or has fewer people doing it, or has partial or full automation doing it.

          • ares623 2 hours ago

            Agreed. It kinda worked for software for a bit since it was such a new field, so there could’ve been some truth to it just as a matter of time to get the systems in place to educate people.

            • mcphage an hour ago

              You’re right, although the mechanic’s claim here was more complicated and interesting than just “we’re getting underpaid”.

              • stavros an hour ago

                It was a good view into what exactly the car companies are doing, but essentially it was "we're getting underpaid" with extra steps.

                The car companies have basically set up a monopsony with cartels, squeezed the mechanics out, and are now complaining that they squeezed them out too much.

            • xtiansimon 14 minutes ago

              Emperor has no clothes. Instagram is full of videos by mechanics explaining this or that brand/model is stupidly engineered. Known problem. And mechanics do not have a seat at the table where these matters are discussed and decided upon. Unless he plans to change that…

              • staminade 3 hours ago

                Standard CEO: "I'll do anything to hire more skilled workers, except pay them a reasonable wage."

                • dugmartin 2 hours ago

                  The "design for unmaintainability" problem has been around for a while. I remember helping a friend change his plugs on this Ford Ranger in the early 90s. The closest two plugs to the firewall required you to climb into the engine bay and basically hug the engine to get your arm into position to blindly get to the plugs. If you look around on YouTube you'll see some crazy mechanic videos where they show things like bolts located in impossible to loosen locations.

                  Cars used to be simpler to work on because a) they inherently were simpler and b) the engine bay used to have a lot of room to work in. Both of these things are not coming back.

                  • burnt-resistor 2 hours ago

                    It's kind of always been that way to varying degrees. In the 70's/80's, changing the Porsche 911 spark plugs required dropping the engine.

                    Also, in addition to planned obsolescence and repair hostility is Design for Manufacturing (DfM) that doesn't care about maintainability, safety, comfort, or durability, only lowest cost to shove things together on an assembly line. This is why there are some cars that require removing the wheel well to change the oil filter and other that have things completely out-of-order or require absurd tools to service. My grandfather was a 30 year Chrysler dealer mechanic who had a dozen or so custom tools for very specific purposes.

                    Source: Dad had an A/C & electrical mechanic shop next to a Porsche specialist shop.

                    • nialse 2 hours ago

                      In the 70's/80's you could fit a person in the engine bay of a Volvo. So, varying degrees of complexity and difficulty to fix things.

                  • HPsquared 2 hours ago

                    Auto mechanics do things to "flat rate" where each task is listed as taking a given amount of time. There seems to be a lot of variation between what the book says, and how long the tasks actually take. How are these flat rates assessed? I wonder if it's assuming a new car with no complications or wear and tear to components, or rust etc.

                    • gherkinnn an hour ago

                      The other day I listened to The Verge's Decoder episode with the Ford CEO [0] and unlike most other CEOs, he almost felt genuine. There was a noticeable lack of BS. Have I been played?

                      The lack of mechanics was mentioned and I recall him saying that they're building up apprenticeship programs and the US should take more pride in blue collar work.

                      0- https://www.theverge.com/podcast/784875/ford-ceo-jim-farley-...

                      • pylua 33 minutes ago

                        How is this legal?

                        • ares623 2 hours ago

                          Is this the new "learn to code"

                          • stavros 2 hours ago

                            No, "learn to code" was the supply-side response of people who saw software engineers get paid shittons of money. This is a demand-side CEO lamenting the fact that he can't get people to fix cars for cheap, so literally the opposite problem.

                          • LaSombra 2 hours ago

                            Excessive regulation to blame? How so?

                            • burnt-resistor 2 hours ago

                              Yes, opining for wage suppression but also here's a mechanic owner/operator explaining the situation:

                              https://youtu.be/9cfbhxsqW84