Eesh, the person who went up to give her supplies died on the way down too.
Also her husband died a few year ago.
These people want to do things that they know are extremely dangerous, and some times die. I don't empathize. Compare to those people who die by no fault of their own. Drunk driver, war, etc. Am I callous to believe that the two are not equally deserving of our empathy?
I think making a point broadcasting that one doesn’t care if other people who weren’t harming anyone die is callous, yes. Doubly so when one does it on a news story about people dying.
The thing is, they can and do harm others. Not just family and friends when they perish, but rescue workers who risk their own lives to save people who get into trouble. The article talks of 2 people who delivered her supplies, one died, the other has gone to Germany for frostbite treatment - as fellow climbers maybe they don't count in quite the same way, but rescue workers do die or get injured as well.
Hmm. I don't know. I am glad they're not harming anyone else, but also -- like, I have kids. And if they were to get into this sort of thing, I'd at the least be like "Well, that's STUPID. Why put yourselves in harm's way deliberately like this. Stressing me and mom out. Do something that helps someone else instead."
My uncle promised his kid $10k if he did not buy a motorcycle he was planning to buy
Gos bless your uncle. Smart man. Did it work?
That’s fair, but there’s a way to say that without bringing “deserving” into it. As you did.
For my part, there’s a big part of me that still is moved by Tennyson: “As tho’ to breathe were life!”
There is not caring about an unknown person which is default stance. And then there is going out of your way to make everyone know other people do not deserve empathy or whatever and how worthless they are to you. The two are not the same.
Why do you want us all to compare them to other people who died? You are not callous. You are angry and emotional over others having interest in the story.
Did you mean sympathy rather than empathy?
That is a path towards a more boring humanity.
Drunk driver, war, etc. Am I callous to believe that the two are not equally deserving of our empathy?
I've always thought that a good comparison was drug addiction. Ultimately, what's the difference between someone who engages in high-risk extreme sports and someone who just sits at home doing meth in the basement?
They are both doing dangerous, unnecessary things to manipulate their brain chemistry, without creating or learning anything useful or affecting anything in the larger world around them. Why is one considered heroic and adventurous, and the other criminal or at best pathetic?
I'm not saying that pleasure-seeking for its own sake is inherently bad or wrong, but how would you compare and contrast the behavior of a drug addict and a high-risk climber, if you were explaining it to an alien anthropologist?
Life is for living silly bear. I cannot imagine anything worse than getting to the end of your life and finally realizing you never lived it. That you wasted this once in a live time experience. But that is just me.
are you planning to try meth before you die?
>I'm not saying that pleasure-seeking for its own sake is inherently bad or wrong, but how would you compare and contrast the behavior of a drug addict and a high-risk climber, if you were explaining it to an alien anthropologist?
the argument is probably that today's extreme sports risk takers were last epoch's explorers who helped humanity conquer the planet.
I'd be willing to buy that if she had died while diving in an unexplored cave system, for instance, working to bring us knowledge and insights about nature that we didn't already have.
But there was nothing left to discover on that mountain peak, except how much frostbite sucks.
I find the analogy quite apt. I have known drug addicts who I thought were recovered, but who could not fathom simply going to work and then going home to their families every night. They thought that was an incredibly boring life. Predictably, they relapsed. They could’ve caused significantly less stress to their families and loved ones by having more socially acceptable thrillseeking methods.
In general I agree with you, but a counterexample to our rejection of their supposed heroism (and ascription of it to brain-chemistry-seeking identical to heroin addiction) is Alex Honnold [0], famous for his free solo of El Capitan in Yosemite. There's an excellent documentary on him, Free Solo [1], where it's very clear that he's neuro-diverse and that extreme climbing efforts put him into the zone, calming and focussing him. There's zero machismo to it. For him, it's an act of supreme, extended concentration.
I suppose in some sense it's still just manipulating one's own brain chemistry, but it seems a very distinct kind from adrenaline junkies.
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Honnold [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Solo
You didn't say it outright so this is not me correcting you specifically, but there's this semi-myth that "Honnold doesn't feel fear because that region of his brain is smaller than everyone else's". He, at least, disputes this. He feels fear but he knows how to focus it, and it's a combination of some kind of innate talent and conditioning as he's put himself in scary situations before
Not quite the same, but Youtuber Ally Law (known for climbing cranes and tall structures) started doing it specifically because he used to be terrified of heights and now seems to not have a problem with it
I do tend to agree that Honnold is an exception to the "why don't they just do drugs" argument. He's teaching us that we can do things we didn't think we could do, and I have to believe there's real value there. He's genuinely inspirational.
Climbing some random mountain in Russia, though... that's not "Holy fuck, what's this guy made of?!" but "Yeah, a bunch of other people already did that, and it was cool, I guess, except for the ones that died."
Without death, there is no life.
Climbers know they risk death in pursuit of their accomplishments. I am positive it is one of the ways they challenge themselves.
These aren’t kids you are talking about. As the article says, this climber’s husband died while she was climbing with him in 2021. She absolutely knew the risks. I do not believe she would have wanted sympathy. “Normal” people can’t relate, and have “normal” responses. I’ll imagine my own eulogy for her, but this article isn’t it.
> I am positive it is one of the ways they challenge themselves.
More like to show off and get respect from their kind. May be a job. Yes, they are aware of risks, they read every news about climbers' deaths. Same with divers, for example. Skydivers... Still they climb, dive, and jump.
Is it known how she broke her leg?
Is that important? One misstep. She broke her leg half a year before.