« BackRupert's Propertyjohncarlosbaez.wordpress.comSubmitted by robinhouston 15 hours ago
  • Strilanc 10 hours ago

    Oh damn, in this year's sigbovik, Tom7 was trying to find out if shapes were Rupert or not: https://sigbovik.org/2025/proceedings.pdf#page=346

    • robinhouston 7 hours ago

      I believe that the name ‘Noperthedron’ for this new polyhedron that has been proven not to be Rupert was given in homage to tom7’s coinage ‘Nopert’ in that SIGBOVIK paper.

    • decimalenough 4 hours ago

      I was expecting a long listing of real estate owned by Rupert Murdoch. Fortunately somebody else already wrote that one too:

      https://www.architecturaldigest.com/story/the-murdoch-family...

    • dwrensha 11 hours ago

      Last month, before this result came out, the question "Is Every Convex Polyhedron Rupert?" was added as a formal Lean statement to Google's Formal Conjectures repository:

      https://github.com/google-deepmind/formal-conjectures/blob/1...

      I wonder how feasible it would be to formalize this new proof in Lean.

      • robinhouston 6 hours ago

        Interesting. My guess is that it's not prohibitively hard, and that someone will probably do it. (There may be a technical difficulty I don't know about, though.)

        David Renshaw recently gave a formal proof in Lean that the triakis tetrahedron does have Rupert's property: https://youtu.be/jDTPBdxmxKw

        • dwrensha 43 minutes ago

          > David Renshaw recently gave a formal proof in Lean that the triakis tetrahedron does have Rupert's property

          That's me!

          This result appears to be significantly harder to formalize.

          Steininger and Yurkevich's proof certificate is a 2.5GB tree that partitions the state space into 18 million cells and takes 30 hours to validate in SageMath.

          Formalizing the various helper lemmas in the paper does seem achievable to me, but I suspect that applying them to all of the millions of cells as part of a single Lean theorem could present some significant engineering difficulties. I think it'd be a fun challenge!

          If that turns out to be infeasible, an alternate approach might be: we could write a Lean proof that the 2.5GB tree faithfully encodes the original problem, while still delegating the validation of that tree to an external SageMath process. Such a formalization would at least increase our confidence that there are no math errors in the setup. A similar approach was taken recently by Bernardo Subercaseaux et al in their recent paper where they formally verified a SAT-solver encoding for the "empty hexagon number": https://arxiv.org/abs/2403.17370

        • yorwba 8 hours ago

          The most annoying bit might be that they use different, though equivalent, definitions of the property, so you would also need to formalize the proof of the equivalence of definitions.

        • oersted an hour ago

          Here's the Rupert in question. What a dude! Eminently impressive.

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_Rupert_of_the_Rhine

        • karmakaze 10 hours ago

          Intuitively not surprising as the property doesn't hold for a sphere which can be approximated. But there's a world of difference between intuition and proof, especially on the edge.

          I would hope there are others with more faces that don't have the property and this could have the fewest faces.

          • B1FF_PSUVM 3 hours ago

            "You can cut a hole in a cube that’s big enough to slide an identical cube through that hole! Think about that for a minute—it’s kind of weird."

            Audience pretending not to think of https://www.google.com/search?q=it+goes+into+the+square+hole... ...

            • pavel_lishin 15 hours ago

              I could have sworn that Matt Parker did a video on this as well, but I couldn't find one.

              • jerf 11 hours ago

                https://youtu.be/gPIRLQZnRNk , 7:20 specifically for cubes.

                I knew I'd seen it before too so you nerd-sniped me.

                • pavel_lishin 2 hours ago

                  Thanks!