The latest as far as I know is that Phison couldn't replicate the issue. [1]
[1] https://wccftech.com/phison-dismisses-reports-of-windows-11-...
But what's actually happening? There seems to be a lack of technical information.
And why does the SSD allow this to happen? A SSD has its own onboard computer, it's not just allowing the OS to do whatever it wants. Obviously the OS can write way too much and reach the endurance limit but that should have been figured out almost instantly, with OS write stats and SMART stats.
> And why does the SSD allow this to happen? A SSD has its own onboard computer, it's not just allowing the OS to do whatever it wants.
If the device is DRAM-less, much of its central information (large parts of the FTL, in particular) resides in the host's RAM, where the OS could presumably touch it. If that area of RAM is _somehow_ being overwritten or out-of-sync or otherwise unreliable, you can get pretty bad corruption.
no, the FTL is still in the SSD unless it's a host-managed SSD which is also operating in host-managed mode, which none of the articles have mentioned to be related to the issue
No, some SSDs use host memory buffer (HMB) to cache FTL tables. If the FTL cache gets corrupted, and that causes critical data to be overwritten, that could brick the SSD. For instance, if the FTL table was corrupted in such a way where a page for a random file is mapped to the page for the SSD's FTL (or other critical data), and the OS/user tries to write to that random file.
Isn't that a huge flaw?
It is not published yet on the Microsoft update page (https://support.microsoft.com/KB/5063878). And it only applies to Windows 11 24 H2.
https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/answers/questions/5536733/...
>But what's actually happening? There seems to be a lack of technical information.
That's also what I want to know. All the information on this topic seems to be just circular anecdotes like a snake eating its own tail: a bunch of anecdotal reddit posts, quoting a Tom's hardware article, that's quoting more anecdotal reddit posts, that's quoting one Japanese tweet of someone's speculation.
Like how many of these SSD deaths can actually be pinned on this update, and how much of this is just "Havana syndrome" of people's SSDs dying for whatever other reason, then they hear about this hubbub in the news and then they go on reddit and say "OMG mine too", then clickbait journalists pick up on it, and round and round we go, further reinforcing the FUD, but without any actual technical analysis to verify.
Right. It could just be the usual suspects of misinformation (Reddit, click-hungry "journalists", certain YouTube/Tiktok creators) amplifying each other in a circle. Just like that "16 billion passwords data leak" earlier this year.
There is probably something going on. It could very well just be a bad batch of SSD controllers from one manufacturer failing.
Agree; any truth to the fact that this is push back for Windows 10 EOL?
> But what's actually happening?
Publications need clicks, videos need watches, people need upvotes
"I installed a Windows update and my SSD died afterwards" doesn't seem like news, given that almost all Windows users periodically install Windows updates and SSDs sometimes fail.
Runaway processes are big problems for SSD life. A runaway file indexer, or a tool which re-writes large chunks of data can consume the TBW limit of an SSD pretty fast if it's left unchecked for long.
I seem to remember Spotify causing big problems because of this
This is doing the rounds on YouTube, too. But with pretty much the same information as everywhere else that tracks back to the same original sources.
* https://youtube.com/watch?v=mlY2QjP_-9s (JayzTwoCents)
* https://youtube.com/watch?v=sU_WepeHUd8 (ThioJoe)
* https://youtube.com/watch?v=7xS-CE-hy6Q (Dave's Attic)
* https://youtube.com/watch?v=zoHGSz-f6os (Pureinfotech)
Is it actually killing the SSD (SSD can no longer be used) or just corrupting the data on the SSD? It's hard to make out from all the comments and news articles.
"Just" corrupting your filesystem...
Relative seriousness, both drive damage and filesystem damage are both bad but by slightly different degrees.
There is more chance of being able to fix data corruption, than being able to fix a bricked drive or one with unbearable blocks.
Self rely as I'm too late to edit out a slide-keyboard error: unbearable -> unreadable
some data might be worth way more than any SSD.
If it is then storing it without backups sounds like a bad idea
I wonder what the commercial effect is of such a thing on MS. Because assuming that the SSDs are unrecoverable it might lead to sales of new machines or new Windows licenses. There is a fair chance that bugs like these end up making good money, the numbers are large enough that even a small fraction of the users being affected can translate into a serious windfall.
They should be held liable if their software bricks hardware.
Can you get Linus Bucks by replacing your efivars with Doom?
You seem to be implying that Linus Thorvalds should also be liable for damage caused by Linux kernel.
I don't think the analogy is good. You might be better off replacing Linus with Apple and Linux with macOS. In that case, I would definitely think Apple should be held liable if an update to macOS bricks some hardware in a Mac.
But with Linux, it is different: You do not have a business relationship with Linus.
Sure, if you bought your Linux distribution from, say Red Hat, and it bricks your server, I think you might have a good case against Red Hat(IBM).
You took my reply a little too seriously :-)
Torvalds* but I'm sure he'd not mind the extra H :)
We knew more technical information about the CrowdStrike than we know about this. It's ridiculous.
Wasn't this mostly a WD HBM issue? [1]
[1] https://www.neowin.net/news/report-microsofts-latest-windows...
Not related, but this reminds me of a recent issue with the Samsung 990 Pro SSD that required a firmware update for fix, and some drives had to be returned. I speculate it was exacerbated by increased usage.
https://serverfault.com/questions/1172216/issue-with-samsung...
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/samsung-990-pro-health-dro...
Some more information here https://www.windowslatest.com/2025/08/20/microsoft-is-invest...
I'm wondering if I should defer my full system backup on the 1st of September, as the resulting file is 300+ GB.
I had a BSOD last week, 0x0000012b (FAULTY_HARDWARE_CORRUPTED_PAGE), which I've never had, and was hoping it isn't related to this update.
You might want to run memtest86+ (or the built-in equivalent from some OEMs like Dell), in my experience memory sticks sometimes go bad after being in use for a while.
Maybe just re-tuning the timing, if he's using high performance sticks. Because parts are hard to get by where I live, I usually stick 10+ years with a PC. With usage I found that I have to relax the timings a bit after some years.
That's why I don't install updates, unless and until they've been proven not to break things. I miss the old days when software was expected to work out of the box and updates, on the rare occasions when they appeared, were actually useful.
I hope you are speaking with tongue in cheek. Security is the main reason to keep current with updates. They address various “CVE” reports and go beyond to patch things not reported by CVEs.
I think users wouldn't be so resistant to security updates of they were just that and not bundled with feature removal, unwanted new features, and other things.
Or if they were properly done. Example: Intel and the plundervolt vulnerability. To fix that they removed the ability for undervolting in ny laptop. If I don't use SGX there's no reason for the block. They could've restricted undervolting only when SGX is enabled but no, they had to "fix" it in the worst way possible.
CVE inflation is real. Most CVEs are of very low quality.
Anyway, security updates should be decoupled from feature updates, so that people aren't hesitant to update. Otherwise, you get people who hold out because they're worried the new release is going to break all their settings and "opt-in" into all kinds of new telemetry.
> Security is the main reason to keep current with updates.
For plenty of users, their only exposed attack surface is the web browser and AV codecs. Updates outside of that make no security difference for them.
> Security is the main reason to keep current with updates.
It shouldn't be that way though. Especially the billion dollar corporations should not be excused for shipping insecure software - the sad reality though is that Microsoft seems to have lost most of its QA team and what remains of its dev team gets shifted to developing adware for that sweet sweet "recurring revenue" nectar. Apple doesn't have that problem at least, but their management also has massive problems, prioritizing shiny new gadgets over fixing the tons of bugs people have.
If it breaks a SSD, would microsoft be liable for the damage?
The EULA that nobody reads says no
I doubt it
Has Microsoft ever been liable for anything?
[dupe] Earlier: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44931383
The biggest problem with this is near zero communications from Microsoft. But what do I expect these days? Shovel AI in everything at any cost.
I’ve had repeatable data loss recently from windows 11 under a specific condition copying directories in explorer. The case works on windows 10 LTSC fine. I have absolutely no idea where to even raise this as an issue now. I’m not sure I even give a fuck.
Any word from Microsoft?
Tomorrow, somebody will still explain to you like you're a child that Linux has hardware incompatibilities (on the computer they bought last week the day it came out), and is just not ready for prime time.
They want to stick with Windows because it's safe and just works.
And I will continue to use non-upgradable Macs because, while I miss tinkering with and upgrading my computers, I simply don’t have time for it anymore.
And sadly they’ll still be right :<
Install "Windows 10 IoT Enterprise 2021 LTSC" if you don't mind buying grey market keys. Less crapware, more mature and less enshittified than 11, and security fixes until 2032.
I don't want to endorse Windows at all (use Linux if you can!). But maybe you need it to occasionally test something or whatever.
You don't have to buy grey market keys, use the public ones installed through mass gravel. Open source, hosted on Microsoft's own GitHub - it's practically an endorsement!
> https://github.com/massgravel/Microsoft-Activation-Scripts
> if you don't mind buying grey market keys
Please don't buy "grey market" MS keys (i.e. super cheap keys or keys for products not sold to end users, like LTSC).
Either buy keys from legitimate vendors or use alternative activation methods (emulated KMS, etc.). I believe a lot of these grey market keys come either from MSDN subscriptions or leaked MAK keys, in either case, you aren't really paying for the product, you're just funneling money to sketchy people.
Even though I professionally work with Linux I still don't trust it enough for gaming. I know that Steam does great things with Proton, my issue is that I'm not the type of gamer who constantly plays the same game - Play a game for how long the story or my interests lasts, then switch to the next game.
And after a whole day of debugging and hair pulling at work I just don't feel like then also debugging why a game is not running like it should.
But I heard I should give it a try again, last time I gave it a shot was 2-3 years ago. Big plus would be that I'd be completely free of Windows...
Did you try bazzite OS, the only issue I have had was to select the proton build of CS, everything else works out of the box. Except for games that need anti-cheat… So I still ended up with a windows partition.
I guess he wants to use his general computing device as a general computing device and not as a console.
Maybe you know this but Bazzite works perfectly well as a standard Linux desktop operating system. It comes with a non-gaming desktop environment and can be setup to boot directly into that desktop environment. It just defaults to the steam gaming interface.
It's an immutable distribution...
FWIW : I own 262 games on my steam library, played most of them at least once. I had no issue with any single game.
I don't play multiplayer games so I'm not concerned by anti cheats though.
Weirdly enough I had one of those 10 IoT Enterprise 2021 LTSC systems kill a SSD in the past month, bad blocks. Intel 520 180GB. Probably coincidence but I figured I'd mention since this was also a system with a large OST file in use.
Had to get windows to play anti-cheat games. The EU mandated N versions seem pretty bloat free to me.
this issue has been going for 2 months
How are you defining "bricked"? The SSD device can no longer be enumerated on the PCIe/SATA bus, or it doesn't respond to ATA/NVMe commands, or it doesn't respond as expected, or it does but the data is always wrong? Does the same SSD work in another machine?
edit: The author of the comment I replied to has changed their comment to remove all details of their testing.
yes
That’s a fragile, sort of roundabout comment. I can think of 90125 reasons closer to the edge that will move us back two squares.