What's the proper name for that other, arguably even more well-recognized, BIC pen, that looks like Cristal except its main body is opaque orange, and is generally cheap garbage that breaks in your hand if you squeeze it it too hard, and doesn't even write half the time?
(And yeah, I remember the taste of it, too. I've "eaten" through my share of these pens as a kid. It's the one pen you can't bite on, unless you like having shards of orange plastic everywhere.)
It's also magical in a big way - it's almost as if it were enchanted with a "handwriting: -10" debuff, because that's what happens when you try writing with it, relative to anything else (including pencils and crayons). To this day, I occasionally wonder, how did they manage to achieve that distinct effect.
In my circles, BIC as a brand is basically the stuff you don't buy unless as a last resort, whether that's ballpoints or razors or anything else.
In Spain it's just called "Bic Naranja" ("Bic Orange") and those of us over 40 or so typically remember the ad slogan which perfectly described their different functionality: "Bic Naranja escribe fino, Bic Cristal escribe normal" (Bic Orange writes thin, Bic Cristal writes normal). Rather lame but to the point and memorable :)
BIC lighters are more of a first resort than a last resort.
In the same sense their vacuums, if they made them, wouldn't suck.
Are you suggesting their lighters are bad? That’s certainly not my experience. I have a Bic mini that has been packed inside my camping stove kit (a small titanium pot containing an iso-propane canister, stove, and rag) for nearly 15 years. Since I use barely any of its fuel, it hasn’t run out yet, and I suspect it could continue to work as a striker whenever the fuel does run out.
I don't know; a) I haven't seen a good lighter in my life (other than on TV, i.e. whatever it was that Admiral Adama carried in BSG, because that was, by definition, a good lighter); and b) in context of the whole subthread, I assumed the parent was being sarcastic.
Yeah, I'm a bit confused if GP is saying their lighters are bad. Every single person I know who uses a lighter many times a day generally uses a Bic[0] - if they're not, it's one of these cheap plastic ones[1], very similar to the pens GP is referring to. A few of them have Zippos, but those are relatively rare among people I know, at least for everyday use.
[0] https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ae/BI...
Yeah, when I was a smoker (thankfully many years in the past now), I really only ever used bics. I went through phases with Zippos or butane lighters, but they were always maintenance heavy, unreliable and too expensive for something so comonly shared with others. On the flip side, no-name gas station lighters didn't last and were generally unreliable. Bics hit a huge sweet spot of being long lasting, reliable, _and_ cheap enough to be treated as disposable even though they weren't in practice.
Those cheap transparent ones in your second picture are infamously unreliable. I swear I’ve had ones that quit after a dozen strikes.
BIC lighters are extremely reliable, when I smoked I went thru hundreds and the fuel always ran out before the flint did.
For most pens, it's really all about the quality of the writing surface, and blame is incorrectly attributed to the pen when it's taken outside its design limits. Paper that is overly thin or rough with a hard backing(like most school desks) tends to be less forgiving and ballpoints become likely to clog more easily because the ball will roll without good contact - for those, dry media, marker or brush will do the best. But smooth, heavy papers backed by kraft board will be very sympathetic to all pens.
It's the fine (thin line) version of the normal one.
I've never noticed any difference other than the line width. Either barrel can shatter if you bite hard enough. They both seem to survive long periods of little or no use better than other brands.
This is the orange Bic Cristal.
BIC Orange fine.
https://www.amazon.com/BIC-Orange-Original-Ballpoint-Point/d...
> made to last with enough ink to write for an average of 3,5 km
measuring ink capacity in km makes total sense but I find it hilarious
The skilcraft US government pen, was spec'd to write 5k in -40F to 160F and is also manufactured by the blind. I've got a box of them spread out anywhere I need a pen.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/0...
My grandfather had a skillcraft stick pen (the cheapest one they make) from his last job before retiring. I'm pretty sure that same pen sat in a cup in his kitchen for like 30 years and was used daily. Never ran out.
The box at your link calls it "Cristal fine Orange", so it's still a type of BIC Cristal like a sibling comment says.
…whether that's ballpoints or razors or anything else.
Oh, man, those crap razors. I’m in Whitehorse, Yukon, and the only disposable razors the drug store carries are BIC. I remember that they’re crap, but obviously people must still buy them, how bad could they be?
I would have had fewer nicks and cuts if I’d used my pocket knife.
Two articles on it (which probably were part of the source for this one):
- https://www.penaddict.com/blog/2016/1/17/bic-cristal-ballpoi...
- https://www.jetpens.com/blog/How-the-Ballpoint-Pen-Changed-t...
a book which has a bit on the usage of this and similar Bic models is:
https://www.paulshawletterdesign.com/2012/12/blue-pencil-no-...
(ob. discl., I received a copy (which I gave to my daughter) to write the review: http://ftp.tug.org/TUGboat/tb34-2/tb107reviews-zapfhallmark....) which has the line:
> Some such details are very humbling, such as the exquisitely beautiful design study for Zapfino-like capitals intended for use with Firenze shown with the 49 cent Deluxe Fine Point Bic ballpoint pen used to render the letters (pg. 43).
There's an old article from The Atlantic [1] that makes the case that the ballpoint pen killed cursive: they require much more pressure to write with compared to rollerball or fountain pens. Like the author, I started using a fountain pen and it makes so much more sense why you would write in cursive with that thing.
If you like taking analog notes, I highly recommend getting yourself a starter fountain pen and some good paper (emphatically not Moleskin—those work best with pencils; too much bleed with fountain pen ink) and enjoy hand writing as it was meant to be. ;)
[1]: https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2015/08/ballp...
I second your recommendation for trying fountain pens. I suffer from some form of arthritis, and fountain pens let me write again.
There are a variety of cheap ones available; I'm fond of the Platinum Preppy. They're cheap as chips, write nicely, and have a fine version that actually lives up to its name. The Lamy Safari is also popular, but I found it too chunky to be comfortable.
Very nice! I know a lot of people like the Platinum Preppy. I typically use a LAMY Al-Star, but I never post the cap on the end of the pen while writing—the pen has much better balance when the cap is on the table. I also really like my Pilot Metropolitan.
It's such a versatile product. I bet everyone here who's older than 45/50 have at least once used a Bic pen to rewind a cassete tape.
I also used the plastic clip as a stapler remover.
There were many other uses for it, for sure.
Never tried myself but I know they were used to defeat older U locks for bikes.
For that job you needed one of the opaque round ones with a more flexible plastic. It had to friction fit over the centre of the keyway so it could deliver some torque as you were working the tumblers.
The clip is also a superb stress-reliever by biting it :-)
I'm not that older, but I had learned this trick, mainly when the device goes wrong and we need to fix the tape :)
cassettes were still popular 20y ago, you can probably take 15y off your estimate!
At least in my area, cassettes were still popular 30 years ago during the transition to CDs, but by 20 years ago we were in the midst of the transition from CD to iPod. I don't remember seeing new tapes for sale anywhere after about 2000, and we were definitely burning CDs full of MP3s before then instead of making mixtapes. Personally, I bought my last cassette around 1995. Your point still stands, however...I think cutting 10-15y off the estimate would be reasonable.
In my own case CD's, MP3 and cassette use have overlapped. MP3 players were expensive, Discmans were too big to fit in a small pocket. So walkmans were still useful. I used to record tunes and mixes from the radio at the time too as it was super quick to hit record on the ghettoblaster when listening to the radio provided you had a tape ready. So yes I was still using and listening to cassettes in the early 2000's.
as 32 year old, I can confirm I used BIC pen (or similarly shaped pencils) to rewinds tapes.
I always just used a pencil.
I usually had neither on me when needed, so I just used my pinkie.
That's good for small rewinds, but with a Bic pen, you can rewind the whole tape as fast (maybe even faster than some) ad a tape deck. Just slide the pen in the spool and start spinning the cassete.
Like this: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yk8v9Ijp1So
That worked too, was just a bit more uncomfortable.
The BIC Cristal pen was listed by Jerry Seinfeld as one of his 10 essential items that he can't live without in an interview with GQ. He says he always finishes the pens, never loses them, and that he called BIC to (successfully) find out why the cap has a hole in it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YL2sr99Sv18&t=157s
He claims the BIC has quintessence, a quality he says he has been devotedly tracking since reading the 1983 book Quintessence : The Quality of Having It by Betty Cornfeld and Owen Edwards: https://archive.org/details/quintessence00bett
It's the perfect product. I pick it up, I use it, it functions perfectly without thought.
It's a lifelong mission to find any such tech product.
Ever tried writing a few pages with it?
It requires too much pressure compared with gel pens, rollerball pens, let alone fountain pens (although the latter are not for everyone). It soon creates fatigue. And at least in my case I also make uglier handwriting with them that with gel pens, rollerball pens, let alone fountain pens.
It's an extremely reliable product to do what it does, as well as extremely cheap, but far from perfect IMO. I see it more as a last resort if nothing else is available.
So true. I hated using BIC ballpoint pens for this reason. I found the Pilot Rollerballs are my favorites to use. The 0.5mm size writes really smoothly.
I picked up a couple bolt action pens for some more heft and put the Pilot rollerball fillers into the pen to get a really pleasant writing experience.
Did you know the inserts would fit prior to buying the pens? I love the Pilot V5 RT, but constantly have stains around my pockets from them deploying as I move. I don’t carry Precise V5s because I’ve had one too many explosions with them.
This, and the ergonomics of a lighter pen, is the reason I prefer the capped Pilot Precise BeGreen pen, which accepts the same V5 cartridges. I'm surprised how relatively rare these have stayed when the retractable V5s are everywhere.
I used to put some pilot pens in some Geocaches I maintain. No longer, they always get stolen. It's now pencils cut in half. Used to be Dixon, but I'm looking for a new pencil maker
I like them. Don't use pens much, used to be a bit picky, either fountain pens or roller balls or gel, but they'd always leak or be dry or not be ready to roll when I needed them.
I had one Cristal pen that I managed to hold on to and use through at least three moves and 8+ years, until I finally ran it out of ink. It didn't get lost, destroyed, eaten (by puppies or humans), or quit working -- until there was nothing left of it. It was a small accomplishment, but one that I'm absurdly proud of.
My Newton MessagePad was like that --- just the friction of charging/replacing the batteries and the physical friction of the resistive stylus got to be too much for me --- I'd give a lot for its functionality on my (stylus-equipped) phone.
I used to have one of those - so so way ahead of its time.-
PS Also, the handwriting recognition was way ahead of the game.-
Newtons were enormous, having to lug it around was awkward, so I stopped bringing mine everywhere.
`man cat` don't think i've ever been upset at its functionality (or ever read the manual to be fair)
There are some amazing drawings done with blue Bics.
https://mymodernmet.com/paulus-architect-ballpoint-pen-drawi...
Also this, with multiple colors:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Favorite_Thing_Is_Monster...
Very amazing.
I smell these.
I bought a pack of 100 of them for super cheap a few years ago, and a pack of 200 or so pencils with erasers from amazon basics. They carried me through all my exams in university, I have some in every backpack, purse, everywhere. Never had to worry about not having a pen ready, or a replacement if I lost one the morning before the exam. That is truly a buy-it-for-life level investment.
I’m not sure I can get behind buying 100 of a disposable pen as “buy it for life”.
The box (with its contents) will probably outlast me, and I've only ever thrown away, like, maybe one of them?
Buy them for life?
They are only disposable if you throw them away.
I didn't use it for exams, but I once went to a regional clothing store known for being extremely cheap and poor quality and I bought a 1€ mechanical pencil there. Surprisingly, that mechanical pencil had an amazingly well engineered metal collet instead of the usual plastic ones. I've used that pencil for years and my only complaint is that if you don't tighten it enough, it'll unscrew itself and snap your lead.
My favourite thing about Bic's origins:
> Marcel Bich bought the patent for the ballpoint pen from Hungarian – Argentine inventor László Bíró
Presumably beating his rivals John Pencil and Wolfgang von Fountain-Pen to it...
I remember a skit in a (terrible) British sketch show a zillion years ago where Biro tells the details of his secret invention to someone with an aside that there was nobody else in the house except "the butler Bic, the housekeeper Pentel, and the chauffeur Platignum" :)
the word "biro" didn't exist until Biro invented the ballpoint pen, which came to be known after its inventor
Not in English, but the word bíró means judge in Hungarian language. The earliest written memory of the word is from the year 1306, from a land ownership certificate issued that year.
I used these a lot as a kid and always disliked them. Pens and pencils are strange because there's su ch a wide range of preferences for such a simple thing. Something about them always irked me and I honestly don't know what it is.
The BIC Round Stic, however, I love. I bought a box of sixth like a decade ago and still have like thirty left. Super simple, super cheap, and just great for me.
My favourite is actually the BIC M10. Fell totally.out of fashion but I dislike the idea of detachable cap which gets lost all to easy.
https://fr.bic.com/fr/bic-m10-original-stylos-bille-retracta...
I use gel pens, because they leave thinner and more black trace. I think ballpoint pen belongs to history.
I don't think ballpoint pen belongs to history only because you don't use them.
I use BIC ballpoint because they are the only ones who don't die when I carry them in my backpack. All others just cease to function for unknown reason or leak.
I like a regular Bic because I never deal with bleed-through on the low quality paper I use. I just got a generic gel pen literally yesterday to give it a go and I immediately had to shelf it after I tried it due to the bleed.
Gel pens smear when used left-handed. They are unusable for 10% of the population.
<10%.
Not all lefties write with that weird over-rotated grip. I can write with a fountain pen without fear of smearing.
Quick-dry gel formulas are the new wave of gel pen and they are pretty easy to use as a lefty. Bic actually has my favorite of them, the Gelocity. It's very good if you like the Bic ballpoint's oily rolling action and want that as a gel.
They also smear when used in low temperature. Learned that the hard way when making notes outdoors, at sub-zero degree Celsius temps.
Other than that, gel pens are perfect to me.
My uniball Jetstreams don't smear, I don’t even know if they are gel or not but they’ve been perfect. I’m left-handed too if it wasn’t obvious :)
I'll give them a try, thank you for the advice.
Try a Uni-Ball Jetsream, especially the capped version.
It’s a ballpoint, with all of the advantages, that writes smoother than any gel.
There is a bit of a learning curve as it glides so freely across paper.
They’re so good. I was always a pilot g2 guy but I picked up one of the jetstreams at a 7-11 in Japan for like a buck and it’s just the perfect pen.
> It’s a ballpoint, with all of the advantages, that writes smoother than any gel.
Gel pens are ballpoints. What do you mean by "ballpoint" here?
> Try a Uni-Ball Jetsream
I would never choose to use one of those, since they aren't available in 0.5mm. 0.7mm is too thick.
0.5mm: https://www.jetpens.com/Uni-Jetstream-Lite-Touch-Ink-Ballpoi...
“Gel pens” are technically ballpoints, true, but when one says “ballpoint” it’s usually taken to refer to an oil based ballpoint like a Bic, whereas gel ink writes quite differently.
Jetstreams come in a lot of forms, including 0.5mm and 0.38mm I believe.
Not according to Uniball's official website they don't.
https://www.unibrands.co/collections/jetstream?filter.v.opti...
The Jetstream Edge pen uses the same SXR refill size as the 4 colors of refills for the SXE3/MSXE5 multicolor pens; while their website only lists 0.28mm and 0.38mm refills as compatible, the SXR-80-05 refills are also compatible. But I suspect the reason they’re not formally listing 0.5mm support is because the lower-capacity SXR runs out of ink too rapidly when used in single-color 0.5mm, and so that’s why they cap the pen at 0.38mm. Recommend avoiding these as an option.
However!
The SXN-150 and SXN-155 lines deliver normal capacity 0.5mm Jetstream pens; and their SXR-5 refills deliver single-color 0.5mm Jetstream through the SXR-5 refills.
https://www.mp-uni.com/vn/en/product/jetstream-sport-sxn-155...
https://www.mp-uni.com/sg/product/refill-sxr-5/
You can search for the often-dehyphenated SXR-5 refill compatibility to see what pens they fit besides the official SXN-150 options (like, for example, the Pentel Energel); MP’s own website isn’t listing the options properly on the refill page — they only list the SXN-155/S and not the SXN-150/C, for example — so some footwork would remain to identify precisely which official model numbers are associated with the 0.5mm refill — e.g. the SXN-150 and SXN-157 bodies sold at JetPens are all 0.7mm/1.0mm but accept any SXR-# refill for # in { 38, 5, 7, 10 }. I suspect any SXN-xxx* body where x >= 150 is compatible with any SXR-y refill, since the discontinued SXN-100 seems not to be and the SXN-189DS seems to be.
Note that I found it rather difficult to locate the SXN-155 body by model number for shipping to the United States; the UPCs for whichever models you want, e.g. 4902778040737, were much more efficient in locating options.
TLDR: Yes, there are official Jetstream 0.5mm pens and refills, in addition to modding any SXR-refillable Jetstream with 0.5mm yourself.
Just checked, their website lists 0.28 mm, 0.38, 0.5, 0.7, and 1.0 mm, with examples of each. [0]
What pens do you find best and what is your use-case?
[0] https://www.jetpens.com/blog/Uni-Jetstream-A-Comprehensive-G...
> Just checked, their website lists 0.28 mm, 0.38, 0.5, 0.7, and 1.0 mm, with examples of each. [0]
Except that you forgot to check their website. Jetpens is a reseller.
Uniball only acknowledges 0.5mm for Jetstream pens that include multiple ink tubes in one cylinder.
My use case is that I carry a pen around in my pocket in case I need to write something down. More rarely, I might actually write something down. I don't like writing in thick lines.
The pen I'm currently carrying is one of these: https://img.alicdn.com/imgextra/i3/682114580/O1CN01nP4t8J1jh...
>Except that you forgot to check their website. Jetpens is a reseller.
if you're dead set on making sure brand sites match the actual brand offerings then I hope you have the luck to avoid most obscure engineering brands in your life.
it's absolutely the norm in say, hydraulic pumps, that when an offering isn't available on the website you call the company and they say 'Oh yeah, we have those -- theyre not on the site because no one wants one.."
> Except that you forgot to check their website. Jetpens is a reseller.
I'm not sure what's your point. Uniball doesn't sell 0.5mm on their website, fine, but jetpens does. Is your point that Jetpens are selling fakes? Seems pretty unlikely.
I agree that gel writes better but you are wrong about ballpoints. It's like saying i don't write spanish so that means it's useless.
Thick gel pens soak through the paper so they're not great and the thinner nibs break easily or they pierce the paper.
Most times you pick up a pen it's to jot down a quick note or number, a ballpoint makes more sense for that.
The bic clic (not cristal) is the iconic pen of my childhood.
It's hard to explain how popular they were in NZ, if you asked kids to draw a pen that's what they'd draw.
They last for so long that it's almost an accomplishment to have one run out of ink before they get lost, stolen, or broken.
They could have half the ink capacity and most people would barely notice.
> Cristal became ubiquitous around the world
Not quite; in New Zealand they're surprisingly rare. I've never seen them for sale there, even though they're common in Australia.
Just signed a contract with a lawyers pen which was too heavy on ink so I got ink all over my hands. Was a pain to put my hat on after without getting ink on it. Seriously considered bringing my own pen before hand. Guess I will next time.
Not only is this pen ubiquitous, but it's ink flow is usually pretty light, which makes it not smear on your hands or the page.
I'll tell ya why they took over.
IIRC in the late 70s they sold for nineteen cents each (NE USA).
Ya couldn't beat that with a stick.
Such a crappy pen design, guess it proves mediocre designs sometimes prevail. The logical backflips that people use to justify its success are a little annoying though
Care to specify what makes this thing that sold 100 billion copies and is instantly, reliably usable in nearly any conceivable context so crappy? Why not also explain your superior design that you think would work so much better.
Other comments note how it creates fatigue within an hour of writing, which is also my experience. Whether that's a result of low quality ink holders, tips that force overgripping, weight or something else, I do not know.
I have a pen cup for when I need to jot something quickly and can't be bothered to get my primary pen from another room, and I've noticed that I rarely, if ever, choose the Cristal. Granted, it is far from being the worst pen out there, but I wince at the thought of using it as my daily pen.
Furthermore, I don't think that selling 100 billion copies of a thing is a sign of quality, e.g., see Microsoft's product line.
As for superior design in a similar price category (i.e., get it free at every conference room), hands down, it's the Schneider K15. Solid ink holders, comfortable tip, a nice weight balance (albeit I find it too light overall), with an imo beautiful modernist design as a cherry on top.
> Other comments note how it creates fatigue within an hour of writing
I don't care about pens, but if this argument was made elsewhere it'd be argued that the ergonomics and fatigue support the concept of seeking rest rather than finding a pen that allows for longer work hours.
Example : if I said I was getting fatigued at the keyboard in some HN thread I would get 30 replies that told me to time my exposure and seek RSI breaks..
I've had a few of those leak ink over a bunch of my school stuff over the years.
I think it's just not very solidly built, and in some set of circumstances (certainly not always) it's prone to making a mess.
I guess compared to a "high end" pen its crap, but its like saying that the Citroen 2cv is crap compared to a semi truck if we talk about cargo capacity.
The Cristal is the front-runner in my brain for "most iconic consumer product of the 20th century."
That said, it's weird how they've completely vanished from my personal landscape. The opaque white Biros are more common now. But I think I'll go seek out a Cristal later today, just for nostalgia's sake.
Also useful for picking some tubular locks
https://postureinfohub.com/how-to-pick-a-tubular-lock-with-a...
and for disassembling the gamecube (in the days before easy access to non-standard screwdrivers)
And for rewinding cassette tapes.
Yes, though this link is AI slop.
My thinking tool, along with a ream of 80gsm blank white printer paper.
As well as being ubiquitous, reliable and cheap, you can also vary the line weight it produces with pressure. This makes it great for sketches and diagrams, as well as straight writing.
It really is great at being a pen. It writes well and doesn't break. Shout out to the bic which has 4 colours (rgb&b) for being so useful and high quality.
But if you want to know what the best cheap writing pen, it's the clear pilot pen. Everyone around me uses it. There is also the opaque pilot v5 which was the gold standard when i was in school.
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It's not very comfortable, its hard edges are unpleasant for the fingers and it feels too thin.
The flimsy cap gets lost easy and there is an endless amount of ballpoint pens you can click, that don't even need a cap in the first place.
Average clicking ballpoint pens have a plastic that's more comfortable to suck, lick and bite.
I always hated them.
agreed, agreed, … wait what
You never bit on your pen? Especially back in the school days?
Ballpoint pens are the OG stress relief / concentration / "fidget spinner" toys. Except the BIC ones, those would easily shatter; suddenly finding your mouth to be full of sharp, orange or translucent shards of plastic, is the opposite of calm and focus.
I've never done that because pens end up in the dirtiest places. People aren't washing their hands before using them, they gets tossed in a bag and sit in the crevices alongside all sorts of dust and dirt, they get set on dirty desks and will even hit the floor sometimes. All-in-all, super gross.
100 Billion sales means there are some things to like ...
Ok, and? Coke bottles have sold more than that
Because they're useful in so many ways too. Have you not seen "The Gods Must be Crazy"?
Love BIC!
From pens to ChatGPT. What a ride.-
Every feature Google / Apple releases gets millions of users in days. ChatGPT is but a fad that has no moat.
A fad valuated in the billions ...
Plenty of overvalued fads during bubbles (see the dotcom bubble).
Current valuation is not relevant in the context of history, yet.
For now...
...Apple sold less than a million Apple Visions.
Ah, I see you edited your original comment which read something like “ChatGPT might be the most successful product, millions of users in only a few days”.
It’s a service not a product.
Just thinking out loud - in terms of adoption might be up there regardless. But, fair point.-
It's not an apples-apples comparison. Logistics and physical sales is a massive barrier.
Not to mention, ownership.
Granted granted ...
