• SoftTalker 39 minutes ago

    One rule has worked well for me in all my writing: don't be lazy.

    Put some effort into each sentence. Read it back to yourself. If something is at all clumsy, try rewriting it a few different ways. As Strunk said, "Rewrite and revise. Do not be afraid to seize what you have and cut it to ribbons."

    Yes it takes longer, but for all but the most informal writing, it is worth it. All of the other rules are just advice to consider, and perhaps reject.

    • topaz0 5 hours ago

      The problem with all syntax-based writing advice is that it's an extremely poor substitute for taste, and taste has to be developed by years of sitting with prose, good and bad, and seeing what makes you cringe and what gives delight. If you closely read the expert writers and teachers of writing who purvey these rules, you find that none of them follow their own admonitions entirely. That doesn't mean the rules come from nowhere -- in this example, I have observed plenty of novice writers who use adverbs badly, so if you're trying to learn to write well, adverb-dense prose is a common sign of inelegant writing, and a sign that that prose might need some attention. But the solution is not "eliminate the adverbs at all costs" -- the solution is to read closely, feel it grate against your ears, and try revisions until it doesn't grate anymore.

      • reverendsteveii 4 hours ago

        Idk, I can get behind some of it as a mechanical exercise. When I was a young'n and honestly thought I was gonna be an english lit major one of my teachers made me go a whole year without using any prepositional phrases. Did that instantly improve all of my writing? No, in fact everything I turned out under that rule was clunky and overedited. But after that year any time I ran into a prepositional phrase that I didn't like I had the experience to know how to rewrite it effectively. The point is training, not product refinement. Find a device you lean on too much, eliminate it entirely for a while, and emerge from the other side of this process with a better understanding of the crutch, knowledge of several ways to work around it and wisdom to know when to do that. It's not a substitute for taste, it's a tool for developing taste and the ability to refine things to your taste.

      • Charon77 16 hours ago

        What's wrong with using adverbs that don't change the meaning of the word?

        "She grins happily". Sure, "She grins" also conveys the same thing, but the two sentences differ in word count.

        I personally feel that reading has a rhythm to it, and adding more filler words just to make it coherent with the surrounding sentences isn't bad... fictions, at least...

        • MattPalmer1086 11 hours ago

          Mostly just that it's redundant information. But there's always exceptions to any rule.

          • reverendsteveii 4 hours ago

            I know several people that grin menacingly.

            • ccppurcell 13 hours ago

              Brevity is the soul of wit.

              • krige 12 hours ago

                People forget that Polonius, the source of this quote, used seven lines, the above included, to say that Hamlet is mad. It was meant to be ironic, or a joke.

                • dcminter 9 hours ago

                  Plus he was a pompous old fool... his advice shouldn't be taken at face value!

                • garbawarb 8 hours ago

                  Brevity is wit.

                  • SAI_Peregrinus 4 hours ago

                    Smol = wit.

                    11 characters. Could omit the period and spaces for 8. Needed to use the meme spelling "smol" since it's shorter than "small". Can we get it shorter without losing the meaning entirely? Maybe `wit□smol` though that's not the syntax for how `□` is used in modal logic, and still 8 characters (though a bit closer to the original meaning).

                  • whstl 11 hours ago

                    That's why we can't have good things.

                  • sandworm101 9 hours ago

                    She grinned happily.

                    She happily grinned.

                    Same words. I generally prefer the later, but they have very slight differences in emphasis. Without the adverb, the subtle difference is lost.

                    • simonask 9 hours ago

                      It’s not that subtle. The latter means that she was happy to grin, the former that she was grinning in a happy way. The line is only really blurred between these in poetic registers.

                    • schwartzworld 8 hours ago

                      You could grin menacingly. Or nervously. Or reluctantly.

                      • o11c 13 hours ago

                        Like all rules, you can break adverb if you can afford it in your strangeness budget. If you actually have rhythm (which depends highly on context) you can probably afford it. See also the rule that "editing any sentence, in any direction, makes it better".

                        Most adult writers seem to err by making their sentences too long. Shorter is almost always better; you just need to let the length vary except in passages with deliberate repetition.

                        The usual advice I have heard is that you should probably think of a better verb/adjective in the first place. For the example you quoted, "She beams" and "Her face lights up [like something]" immediately jump out at me.

                        Now, looking at all the look-like-adverbs in the article:

                        exuberantly, conditionally - I can't think of a way to merge either of these into the verb, plus they have pair structure. If not deliberately making a point I would probably change these into adjectives describing the noun'ed verb.

                        recently - sentence level construct, generally considered fine if you're not overdoing it (I in fact didn't even notice this until I started grepping)

                        foolishly, incorrectly - these modify a previously-unmodified verb that is deliberately repeated 3 times.

                        lovely - not an adverb despite looking like one; the other common meaning of "-ly" but unusual for taking an abstract noun

                        literally - generally can't merge into verbs; actually used correctly for once

                        swiftly, vigorously - the former has numerous words into which it could merge with the verb; the latter less. But this is clearly an example of deliberately do it for effect

                        swimmingly - generally can't merge into verbs, especially since it's used for effect

                        usually - generally can't merge into verbs, so we're stuck with it unless you rewrite to use something like "wont", "custom", ...

                        inelegantly, wrongheadedly - these could merge (in particular "abuse and misuse" are commonly paired), but are used for effect due to the article topic

                        unthinkingly - this is emphasized; "without thought" would also work. I can't think of a merge in any case, though there are numerous synonyms

                        pointlessly - limited merge opportunities in general, usually veering into metaphor territory e.g. "flailed". Also, this particular sentence feels like it is the whole reason adverbs exist.

                        early - not an adverb despite looking like one. Related to "ere" but that's the wrong part of speech?

                        quickly, happily, sadly, loudly - these are discussed, not really a part of the article itself

                        diligently - hard to merge in general

                        unfortunately - sentence-level

                        angrily - many merges exist - "shouted", "roared", "grumbled", etc. and this is one of the uncommon cases where killing "said" actually can improve the sentence. The cited "improvement" is ... actually pretty bad though.

                        frequently - hard to merge; has a synonym "often" which lacks the "-ly" in case you need to fool a blind rule-enforcer

                        silly - not an adverb and doesn't really look like one despite ending with "ly". It's actually the obsolete "seel" (good, happiness, fortune) + "-y" (resembling)

                        flatly - a few merge targets exist ("recited", or with some rephrasing you might use "rote") but this isn't an important adverb to eliminate

                        typically - hard to merge, and possible replacements might be even worse weasel words

                        lovingly - used as an explicit contrast structure, and few direct merges are in general, but there are many evocative other ways to express it. The article is missing a comma before it.

                        happily, sadly, quietly, loudly - again, these are discussed in the article itself

                        really, badly - this is borderline inner dialogue so the informality and simple word choice is beneficial. Many merges exist (note that since these are both adverbs you'll likely still end up with one) if you're in a context that wants them however.

                        loudly, rudely - discussed for style

                        surely - the particular shade here is of opinion, which prevents what merges might otherwise be possible

                        reflexively - probably can't merge, but in this sentence I definitely feel the strangeness budget straining. If this were anything but an article about adverbs I'd take a knife to it.

                        only - this is an adverb but not for the usual reason. Originally "one" + "-ly" by the usual noun-to-adjective construction, but has fossilized into its own idea (gaining an adverb sense) and should not be avoided. This sentence is a fragment, and the paragraph is full of same-length sentences so I'd be proper and use a comma; if I want the effect that badly then change the rest of the paragraph somehow.

                        weekly - this is the other other "-ly" rule, used only for time nouns

                        hilariously - the context is minimal but it's clear this needs to stay; using a mere pair of adjectives doesn't connect the words strongly enough. In other contexts many rephrasings are possible.

                        • reedf1 10 hours ago

                          "Grins happily", feels awkward, stiff, bloated, and prompts me to expect bad dialogue. The contention is one of style. I can think of a dozen or so logical reasons why this sounds off, but for me it simply smells like bad writing.

                          • Angostura 10 hours ago

                            She grinned nervously, sheepishly, awkwardly, dangerously

                            • reedf1 9 hours ago

                              Much better

                        • Bjartr 8 hours ago

                          I am reminded of the "Tom Swifty"[1], a sort of pun involving an adverb. They gained infamy though the YA books focusing on the adventures of Tom Swift. Here's a few examples

                          > "If you want me, I shall be in the attic," said Tom, loftily.

                          > "The thermostat is set too high," said Tom heatedly.

                          > "Don't you love sleeping outdoors," Tom said intently.

                          > "I just dropped the toothpaste," said Tom crestfallenly.

                          [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Swifty

                          • vharuck 6 hours ago

                            My favorite, plucked from Terry Pratchett:

                            "I'm a homosexual necrophiliac," said Tom in dead earnest.

                          • gadders 7 hours ago

                            The thing I have noticed is that most US-English speakers drop the "ly" from the end of adverbs.

                            Is that grammatically correct for US English, or is it slang?

                            • colanderman 7 hours ago

                              I do this. I think this applies only to adverbs modifying verbs. Adverbs modifying adjectives or participles stay put.

                              "She runs quick," is a thing I'd say.

                              "***The topic was hot debated," would be ungrammatical to my ears.

                              Not sure how widespread it is. I think it just falls out of a natural tendency to elide utterances which don't alter the meaning of a sentence. In many positions it's obvious that an adjective is meant to modify the verb rather than a noun.

                              It's not a hard and fast rule. In formal writing I'd use adjectives per standard grammar.

                              Maybe also related to the (standard) use of adjectives as describing the state into which something is transformed by a verb. In "I painted the wall red," "red" is properly an adjective and modifies the transformative act, not the object. I suspect this construction has been unconsciously widened to apply to nontransformative verbs also.

                              Notably "***she quick runs" sounds highly ungrammatical to my ears.

                              • Nicook 5 hours ago

                                Flashbacks to my driver's ed teacher in highschool who would say adverbs correctly then correct himself by saying it again without the -ly. This drove me insane. And no I haven't noticed this generally in US english speakers. I would assume some negative things about people who drop the -ly from adverbs.

                                • rjmill 7 hours ago

                                  Can you give an example? I've never noticed that (except for certain specific dialects and slang) but I may be blind to it.

                                  • halper 6 hours ago

                                    I hear it most often with "real": it is real bad, good or weird. The Offspring wants you bad.

                                    • colanderman 6 hours ago

                                      Oh yes! This works with other intensifiers as well. "Crazy good", "wicked bad", "mad smart", etc. To my ears, eliding the -ly changes the meaning from the literal reading, to specifically the intensifier reading.

                                    • gadders 5 hours ago

                                      "Think Different" "That went perfect" etc

                                  • ofalkaed 16 hours ago

                                    >“Avoid adverbs” is a common advice in MFA programs

                                    Words fail me, even adverbs seem to be of no help.

                                    • kurthr 13 hours ago

                                      You can't write clearly, without an adverb.

                                      • globnomulous 13 hours ago

                                        Apologize for that comma right now.

                                        • marcosdumay 4 hours ago

                                          It's obviously an attack against the OP's literally competence.

                                          • kurthr 5 hours ago

                                            I clearly can't write without,

                                          • reverendsteveii 4 hours ago

                                            You can clarify your writing without that sort of modification.

                                        • tempodox 5 hours ago

                                          Did I detect a hint of adverbialism in this title?

                                          • throwanem 6 hours ago

                                            I would rather do so with conditional exuberance.

                                            • tempodox 5 hours ago

                                              But that's non-adverbially.

                                              • throwanem 40 minutes ago

                                                Yes. I don't defend my favorite habanero sauce by using it 20% by volume in a recipe, either. Unwise excess is always unwise, and there, I used an adverb just to make you happy.

                                            • elbear 10 hours ago

                                              I upvoted just for the title :)

                                              • chrisweekly 7 hours ago

                                                See also the excellent book "First You Write a Sentence" by Joe Moran.