• sshine 4 hours ago

    I only accept keys on non-standard SSH ports.

    Less spam traffic, easier to access.

    Rejecting passwords is just as much a convenience nowadays:

    I just don't have passwords on my remote machines any more.

    • enkrs 3 hours ago

      If the argument for a password login is being able to log in from anywhere, just store a spare ssh key (password protected) in your gmail or similar that's reasonably safe and accessible from anywhere.

      But I'm having hard time imagining those "anywhere" machine scenarios. Strangers machines that you trust enough to connect to your servers, and are able to install putty or your preferred ssh client of choice on? Better just have SSH on your own phone and laptop.

      • sam_lowry_ 3 hours ago

        > I'm having hard time imagining those "anywhere" scenarios

        Hold my beer.

        You ski in the Alps, its noon, and you get an alert that your DB is down.

        You know this may happen because of invasive bots, and you know what to do, so you just find a calm spot at the high-altitude cafe, ssh from the phone, find the infringing bot's IPs, block them with ipset and send yourself an email to deal with the problem properly later.

        Then you ski happily until dusk, knowing that users won't be affected.

        • xorcist 2 hours ago

          > ssh from the phone

          That strengthens the previous commenters point. That personal phone is not an "anywhere" device but one that already carries the necessary software and can both interface your yubikey or carry your encrypted keys.

          A better example would be the same ski trip but where the data connection is bad on nonexistent so you borrow the hotel's computer to make the emergency fix.

          We used to do things like that, complete with post trip password rotations. I carried a laminated card in my wallet with the important key fingerprints. But with devices like the yubikey and cheap international data roaming, that has gotten less common.

          • sam_lowry_ an hour ago

            A Google or Apple phone carrying encryption keys to my precious servers? Hm... I feel already pwned.

            Jokes aside, I can not be bothered installing ssh keys on my phone. Phones change, get broken or stolen. Ssh clients on phones change as well and can not always be relied upon. I want to be 100% sure I can have ssh access to my servers in whatever improbable situation.

            As for Yubikey... I used it for a while as a keyboard emulator to generate a string to prepend to my corporate laptop password that had insane strength requirements.

            For personal and small business auth... it is too complex and brittle.

            And frankly, what's the problem with a strong password? Like... a quote from Netzsche translated in a mix of French and Dutch with a couple special chars thrown in?

          • saurik 3 hours ago

            I think "anywhere" here has to mean "any random device you come across", not merely "any strange location", as the premise is being able to log in with just a password rather than a key... I often use my phone to do tasks, but I do it with an ssh key on my phone.

            • kenhwang 2 hours ago

              Back when I worked from my phone while in the ski lift line, the solution really is to keep an SSH key on the phone if I intended to do any work from it.

              If I really had to access work resources from any random device, I'd go through the ordeal of logging into the SSO to log in to the web console to open a temporary cloud SSH session with the multiple layers of 2FA and probably even SecOps manual approvals that's likely required.

            • cyberpunk an hour ago

              If I’m skiing in the alps there’s no fucking way I am on call, and you shouldn’t accept it either…

              • sam_lowry_ 39 minutes ago

                Can you imagine that some people are their own bosses, with no backup whatsoever?

              • sam_lowry_ 3 hours ago

                Another one: you sold an online business and forgot about it until the moment the buyer contacts you asking for a meeting exactly when you decide whether you want to go to the bomb shelter or risk staying in the appartment building so conveniently located next to a damb that protects Kyiv from flooding.

                You decide that staying on the 9th floor on the path of cruise missiles to the damb is too risky, pick your good old Toughbook that has enough juice to last until dawn, and go downstairs, asking the buyer over phone to reset the root password and send it over whatsapp.

                Once installed in the shelter, you quickly realize the disk is full, clean the logs and give furter instructions to the buyer to pass on to his IT.

                • teruakohatu 2 hours ago

                  Instead: you WhatsApp your public ssh key to the buyer and login once they confirm your key has been added.

                  I have had to send my ssh pub key over all sorts of messaging platforms.

                  • sam_lowry_ 31 minutes ago

                    No way this person would understand what I want him to do. And if he would not understand, he would grow suspicious. No, no and and no again.

                • doorsopen 3 hours ago

                  As someone who works with SREs every day, this breaks my heart.

                  1 - Don't be on-call while going to ski

                  2 - fail2ban and other automated systems can do this for you

                  3 - Passwords suck and are typically not regularly rotated unless you're using some centralized IdP

                  If you're in this situation you have already failed. If you use password auth use 2FA as well, and then I don't cry, it's just toil though.

                  • sam_lowry_ 38 minutes ago

                    It breaks my heart to see indie dev spirit die even on HN.

              • robador 4 hours ago

                I was just playing around with this problem. I ended up firewalling the SSH port for all but my personal IP, then have wireguard set up so I can use it from within my wireguard network. Works perfectly so far as long as I have my clients set up.

                • cyberpunk an hour ago

                  I just stick remote access on tailscale interfaces these days. If something goes astronomically wrong I can get in via my cloud providers console access too.

                  I really don’t understand why people run sshd on the open internet anymore.

                  • macinjosh 39 minutes ago

                    SSH is standard and it’s open. Tailscale is commercial and closed.

                    • kikoreis 7 minutes ago

                      Well yes but headscale?

                  • sam_lowry_ 4 hours ago

                    I configure password login for root on on standard port for all servers I personally control. Moreover, they all have the same root password.

                    Over the 20+ years, I witnessed a few security incidents. None was related to ssh, let alone a break in via a weak password.

                    But I ran into many situations when I needed immediate access to the server and this setup saved my day, my money and my nerves.

                    • jand 2 hours ago

                      sry to be that guy (with a snarky comment):

                      > Over the 20+ years, I witnessed a few security incidents.

                      As you said, the attackers who breached your system had ssh root access and you had no chance to detect them.

                      • sam_lowry_ an hour ago

                        Attackers attack for a reason. For targets like my servers, they mostly want to install mining software or a DDoS bot. This is detectable via cpu or network monitoring.

                        I assume if someone wanted to extort money from me after encrypting the disks on my servers, I would also be somehow informed.

                    • WhyNotHugo 3 hours ago

                      I use a Yubikey with ssh keys, and suddenly I have my ssh keys available anywhere, while I also avoid them being stored in any single host.

                      • AnonymousPlanet 3 hours ago

                        The first time I actually read this as "... and suddenly I can lose my ssh keys anywhere"

                        • pluto_modadic 2 hours ago

                          why not both? :D

                      • l0ng1nu5 4 hours ago

                        Why not use port knocking as well?

                        • doorsopen 3 hours ago

                          Port knocking is so 2014. Single Packet auth for publicly exposed hidden services is great: https://github.com/mrash/fwknop

                          • rwmj 4 hours ago

                            What's the best way to set up port knocking on a Fedora / Debian server? While not a security measure per se, it adds a layer of obfuscation which blocks random scanners.

                            • c64d81744074dfa 37 minutes ago

                              Not sure if this is the best, but I use nftables and this article helped me setup port knocking on a debian server: https://home.regit.org/2017/07/nftables-port-knocking/

                              Then I added a tripwire feature to make it less likely that a random port traversal would be successful. Here's a snippet of my nftables.conf:

                                  define KNOCK_PORT1 = 20000
                                  define KNOCK_PORT2 = 30000
                                  define KNOCK_PORT3 = 10000
                                  define TRIPWIRE_PORT1 = 15000
                                  define TRIPWIRE_PORT2 = 25000
                                  
                                  table inet filter {
                                  
                                      .
                                      .
                                  
                                      set allowed_ssh {
                                          type ipv4_addr
                                          flags timeout
                                          elements = { $HOME_IP, $OTHER_SERVER_IP }
                                      }
                                  
                                      # track port knocking
                                      set knock1 {
                                          type ipv4_addr
                                          timeout 5s
                                      }
                                      set knock2 {
                                          type ipv4_addr
                                          timeout 5s
                                      }
                                      set banned {
                                          type ipv4_addr
                                          timeout 1m
                                      }
                                  
                                      # handle port knocking
                                      chain raw {
                                          type filter hook prerouting priority raw;
                                          policy accept;
                                  
                                          ip saddr @banned tcp dport { $KNOCK_PORT1, $KNOCK_PORT2, $KNOCK_PORT3} log prefix "nft banned: " drop
                                  
                                          tcp dport $KNOCK_PORT1 set add ip saddr @knock1 log prefix "nft knock1: " drop
                                          ip saddr @knock1 tcp dport $TRIPWIRE_PORT1 set add ip saddr @banned log prefix "nft tripwire1: " drop
                                          ip saddr @knock1 tcp dport $KNOCK_PORT2 set add ip saddr @knock2 log prefix "nft knock2: " drop
                                          ip saddr @knock2 tcp dport $TRIPWIRE_PORT2 set add ip saddr @banned log prefix "nft tripwire2: " drop
                                          ip saddr @knock2 tcp dport $KNOCK_PORT3 set add ip saddr @allowed_ssh log prefix "nft knock3: " drop
                                      }
                                  }
                          • akdor1154 4 hours ago

                            I allow password from the internet only alongside a TOTP code.. Still gives me a backup in case of unforeseen situations but a step above plain password auth.

                            • ruthmarx 2 hours ago

                              It's convenient and fail2ban/crowdsec is generally a sufficient safeguard. Bruteforcing isn't realistic so you just have to keep an eye on vulns.

                              Key auth is obviously better, but password auth is not as bad as many people like to pretend.

                              • darthrupert 6 hours ago

                                It can thwart a local keylogger from getting your password. But of course if you have a local keylogger, you're probably quite fucked already.

                                But there's at least some "security in layers" benefit there.

                                • tjoff 2 hours ago

                                  If it is a software keylogger then getting the key is even easier...

                                • markuman123 3 hours ago

                                  Three layer of defense on default Port here.

                                  1. ufw limit ssh.

                                  2. Ansible devsec.hardening.ssh_hardening

                                  3. fail2ban

                                  • timewizard 5 hours ago

                                    > This is something that I probably care about more than most people, because as a system administrator I want to be able to log in to my desktop even in quite unusual situations.

                                    If I understand correctly you can have your SSH key entirely on a Yubikey if you use PIV or OpenPGP.

                                    • denysvitali 4 hours ago

                                      Yes, this.

                                      GPG supports smartcards (yes, the plastic smartcards) since ages. The Yubikey will appear as a smartcard on GPG and will work on pretty much sny setup.

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                                      • pointlessone 5 hours ago

                                        Does every random system automatically picks up Yubikey? Does SSH on all platforms find that key?

                                        • jazzyjackson 4 hours ago

                                          Up to date systems should support it since about 2021

                                          To get started you’ll need OpenSSH version 8.2 or later, and you’ll also need libfido2 installed. Windows users may need to use Cygwin for this.

                                          https://www.yubico.com/blog/github-now-supports-ssh-security...

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                                        • denysvitali 5 hours ago

                                          I don't agree with the arguments of the author: you can still use a Yubikey (or multiple Yubikeys as a backup) - which is a far more secure option than letting anyone on the internet guess an authentication factor that can be easily cloned (password).

                                          No matter your solution, but exposing password-based SSH on the internet is a very bad idea IMHO

                                          • nobunaga 5 hours ago

                                            So this person, as a system administrator, wants to be able to sacrifice security for his personal convenience so he can login from anywhere. Does not sound like a system administrator that actually prioritises the right things. Security, especially if its not your own system, should always come first.

                                            • iforgotpassword 5 hours ago

                                              You have to balance those two, because the only server that's 100% secure is the one that's powered off. Everyone does that differently. I don't see sshd with key-only auth as dangerous, but password login makes me uncomfortable. Do you drive down to the data center your server is in every time you want to access it?

                                              "I'm using VPN"

                                              Great now you moved the target from sshd to wireguard.

                                              • PhilipRoman 4 hours ago

                                                >Great now you moved the target from sshd to wireguard

                                                I definitely agree with your general sentiment, but in this case wireguard has a much better designed protocol. No response to scans, waaaaay smaller attack surface, no deep integration with a shell that needs to be explicitly disabled depending on use case, no pile of obscure authentication options that you need to make sure to disable...

                                                • nobunaga 2 hours ago

                                                  Sure, but have you heard of reducing the attack surface? If you need to have to be able to log in at all times then youre probably at a scale that you have oncall processes and multiple people that can respond to incidents at a moments notice and having pub key auth enabled only makes sense. If you dont need that then youre probably small enough that that enablig only public key auth or putting it behind a vpn suffices. And having something like wireguard is much better than having something like password login enabled.

                                                  Anyone who sacrifices security for convenience is asking for trouble.

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