• mikewarot a day ago

    I'm amazed. The technical wizardry involved in stuffing this into such a small area of Silicon, then simulating it in a web browser, is awe inspiring.

    At the same time I'm filled with doubt I can get my BitGrid to the same state.

    • Taniwha a day ago

      You can do it too, come on over to https://www.tinytapeout.com/

      • femto a day ago

        Interesting: https://www.tinytapeout.com/competitions/demoscene-tt10/

        This seems to be the currently open tapeout.

        How low-level can you go with tinytapeout? One can imagine the insanity of doing a manual layout to push a demo to extremes.

        • Taniwha a day ago

          You can work at the polygon level if you really want to, you can write gates and have it lay them out for you (or place them yourself), or work in a higher level language like verilog and have it compile them into gates for you (what most people do) - your choice

          • Lerc 20 hours ago

            How good are things like verilog at producing efficient layouts?

            Coming from the perspective of software. Hand coded asm can usually squeeze a lot more than a compiler into a small number of bytes, but that's mostly due to compilers targeting speed of execution instead of size.

            • gorkish 14 hours ago

              Verilog describes the logic. This is extremely simplified, but you can imagine that verilog and other HDLs are "compiled" into a big schematic of logic gates and a big list of signal timing constraints between them. From that schematic and constraint list, a solver then works to do place and route.

              Both of these intermediate stages between verilog and the final working hardware are where all of the secret sauce in semiconductor design actually lives. Both of these steps will be affected by the process target. Are you building for an FPGA or CPLD? Which one? If for an ASIC what is the process node? What logic elements are available in your node? Just like when you order a PCB, the process design rules generally come with prescribed information about the manufacturing constraints -- what works and what doesn't. And ultimately you cant rely on hand layout to throw down millions/billions of circuit elements anyway so you have to build solvers and all kinds of other mind bogglingly sophisticated automation to the party.

              The diminishing returns of manual optimization here should be evident; if you want to do that work, become a process design engineer.

              We do need more open information in this space! Tiny Tapeout is such a great project!

              • Lerc 13 hours ago

                That's all very analogous to software compilers, but doesn't really answer the question I had.

                Specifically for Tiny Tapeout, how much is there to be gained by going low level? I feel like using a subset of verilog features might get you most of the way there.

                Consider that there is a 512 byte BASIC interpreter in asm, that's well beyond what a compiler could manage. I would expect logic expressions in verilog to get closer to a hand crafted approach than that, but I might be wrong.

        • sans_souse 9 hours ago

          Those baseball caps are BALLIN

        • hgo a day ago

          I _need_ to tinytapout! Don't know what, don't know how, but the sense of need is tickling! I feel like twelve again in front of a 286 without a case.

      • londons_explore 7 hours ago

        How many gates are here?

        Is it near the crossover of where the same amount of logic can implement a tiny CPU which can run a program to generate the same output?

        (I guess not in this case, because it needs to output 18 million pixels per second, and a micro-CPU probably won't be doing that anytime soon)

        • znah a day ago

          Author here, and this is how running your design on real hardware feels https://x.com/zzznah/status/1876684831222067350?t=b8-zl-h6uV...

          • tmvphil 11 hours ago

            Completely wild to me that you are backing out the netlist from the geometry gds.

            • znah 11 hours ago

              First I implemented it, and then learned that it is called Layout vs Schematic (LVS). For now automatic conversion is limited to stateless cells, but I'm planning to rewrite the circuit extractor to support all flipflops and latches.

            • StringyBob a day ago

              See also virtual 6502 and ARM1 e.g. http://www.visual6502.org/sim/varm/armgl.html

              • Aissen 21 hours ago

                You might also want floooh's remix which has a nicer UI, with the ability to see instructions evaluated, modify memory, assemble/disassemble code, view traces, etc.

                Visual 6502 remix: https://floooh.github.io/visual6502remix/ Visual Z80 remix: https://floooh.github.io/visualz80remix/

                • butlike 16 hours ago

                  This is going to sound quaint, but because of this simulation, this is the first time I realized they're _literal_ flags on the sides of the CPU, which is blowing my mind.

                  • epcoa 16 hours ago

                    You mean the pads? Those are the connection points for the wires that connect to the external package pins.

                • Aardwolf 21 hours ago

                  This is amazing, I assume the sections lighting on/off are getting electrically activated, but what is this yellow orb slowly moving from left to right near the top?

                  • croemer 21 hours ago

                    My hunch is that that's the pixel that's currently addressed?

                    • jasonjayr 15 hours ago

                      It's the position of the electron beam in a CRT monitor -- from the VGA signal the hardware is emitting.

                      • croemer 5 hours ago

                        Yep, that's what I meant

                      • mark_undoio 21 hours ago

                        Looks like it - if you turn the simulation speed slider way up you can see the image forming as it passes over.

                    • ge96 16 hours ago

                      It looks visually cool

                      • butlike 16 hours ago

                        Tyrell Corporation