People will talk about his different contribution to economy and philanthropy. However, my favorite is the story where he instructed his hotel employees to treat stray dogs well if they enter the premises. For a man of his wealth and power, to care about a stray dog truly speaks to his humble nature. RIP Sir, you were a crown jewel of the post independence India.
https://m.economictimes.com/magazines/panache/ratan-tata-ins...
On one hand, stray dogs are a joy for many Indians. For many months the highlight of the day was going to a cafe at 10 pm in middle of work and throwing bones to the assembled dogs. On the other hand, they enter homes and kill babies, attack children and adults and carry rabies epidemics. Right thing to do is to prevent more strays from happening.
I'm laughing that this is the subthread that generates the most conversation so far on a thread about Ratan Tata's death.
See also: John Wick films, memes. Many signs we're better for animals than ourselves
Can you link to some incidents of stray dogs entering houses and killing babies?
Not sure about entering houses, but a friend’s 5 year old just got bitten by a stray dog on the stomach during a month stay in India, she had to go through a course of rabies shots in the stomach.
A little ignorant here, could you explain a little more on this part.
> the highlight of the day was going to a cafe at 10 pm in middle of work
Is it 'normal' to have to work late to 10pm, or does it mean second job, etc.? Or was that just a typo and you meant 10am?
My gut instinct is 10am, but wanted to ask directly out of curiosity if I was wrong and get a better cultural understanding.
I worked for a company with people in India and they were available through like ten am eastern time. That’s about seven thirty pm which isn’t so bad but if there was any problem my manager would not hesitate to reach out to them even at three pm eastern.
Crunch and 12 hour days are pervasive at tech companies. Also people got meetings with clients or overlap with client timezones (like 2 pm to 11 pm). Hence the office complexes and eateries are still busy at 10 pm. Sorry the "day" was confusing.
Night shift/2nd shift is a thing.
> Night shift/2nd shift is a thing.
Yes, of course and definitely I considered as I mention if he/she meant 2nd job, etc. Just the phrasing threw me off as it says 'day', then '10pm' and it's written as if it is a normal occurrence for the majority of the population (which would imply night shift/2nd shift is normal working times for the majority). Just wanted to get clarification from OP on exactly what was meant to satisfy my own curiosity.
Maybe they're working in a call center
> Call centre work is typically done overnight to accommodate time zones in the US, UK, and Australia
A lot of people tend to work US/EU hours in India because they're "takin' yer herbs!!".
It’s pretty typical for many Indians with any sync-up with the US (which is a lot) to work 12 hr day type schedules starting around 10-11am, with a long break in the middle for dinner/family time. Otherwise, it just doesn’t work eh?
Do Indians not have animal shelters? Which…now that I think about it, is just hunting with additional steps. For that matter, do Indians hunt?
> animal shelters... is just hunting with additional steps
Explain
Since GP won’t, the explanation is a racist assumption that shelter animals would be slaughtered and eaten
There are shelter in metros. For eg. Yoda in Mumbai
The Indian subcontinent is so densely populated, very few areas can support hunting. It does happen in some rural areas. Sport hunting is not really a thing though.
Most Indians (statistically) are vegetarian, and essentially obligate vegetarian due to the population density (also enforced by religion), though ‘vegetarian’ can include eggs, fish, and sometimes chicken depending on the person, time, etc.
Indian Muslims are the notable exception (~13% of the population) and it does cause some serious friction at times - like riots.
A favorite rage bait topic is someone killing a cow. It gets people killed pretty often.
Statistically most indians are Non-vegetarians(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetarianism_by_country#India). Various estimates mostly around 20-40%.
Statistically i "think" more people are killed by terrorist attack then cow vigilantes.
> more people are killed by terrorist attack then cow vigilantes
Cow vigilantes makes it sound like Batman & Robinhood when in fact it is a euphemism for Saffron Terror https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saffron_terrorism
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2021/07/08/eight-in-...
This one says 39% are ‘pure vegetarian’, with 81% ‘limiting meat’ (aka ‘mostly vegetarian’). If just a few percentage points shy of the total non-Muslim population, notably.
Which lines up with what I’m saying.
And looks like 84 killed in lynchings related to cow killings in this table [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_incidents_of_cow_vig...]. I didn’t say a lot died, just that it is a good rage bait topic when someone gets accused of it - and people do get killed over it.
Terrorism in India is a big problem, so yes the number of deaths swamp those 12k or so? [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_India]
No comment on the specifics of these issues, but I find the Wikipedia pages illuminating.
The “cow lynching” one has details about every incident. Whereas the “terrorist attacks” one simply has summaries.
The “cow lynching” is treated as far more important where each incident needs to be explained, but the much more numerous and impactful terrorist incidents are treated as less important.
Like Stalin said, 1 death is a tragedy, 1 million deaths is a statistic.
Also, in India a cow killing is both blasphemy/violence against a god figure, and an attack on an important source of renewable protein for the population.
Where terrorism is, uh. Business as usual.
I remember once when a political party in Bangalore bombed their own headquarters - but got caught doing it. Oops. Within a day or two, the scandal was out of the headlines to be replaced by yet another issue. Trash disposal problems, I think.
Pure vegetarian maybe but eating chicken or fish once or twice a month is still pretty much vegetarian and that’s the vast majority of the population.
Vegetarian is in India is often class signaling.
> though ‘vegetarian’ can include eggs, fish, and sometimes chicken depending on the person, time, etc.
What is the purpose of the word vegetarian if one uses it to mean consuming some animals but not others?
Vegan = no animals used to make food
Vegetarian = no animals consumed
Ovo lacto vegetarian = vegetarian that eats eggs and dairy (I guess additional clarifiers in case someone thinks vegetarian does not include eggs or dairy)
Pescatarian = fish + some flavor of vegetatian/vegan
Omnivore = eats everything
Carnivore = only eats animals
Veganism = no animals "used" to make food or whatever (soap, shoes, invivo testing...)
Many people here seems to make the confusion that veganism is about the food. It's not, it's about the animals.
> What is the purpose of the word vegetarian if one uses it to mean consuming some animals but not others?
Languages are not like mathematics, one word can convey many meaning and nothing is stone-defined (dictionaries are only an interpretation of a language). In the Indian context there's a BIG part of the population that have a diet that does not have a definition in the Official Oxford Dictionary.
Don’t ask me, I’m just using the terms and definitions locals use.
That really isn't that common, IMHO and speaks volumes about his empathy. Its true that my 6-month backpacking experiences are 14 and 16 years old and India is rather a continent on its own, not only population wise but also culturally and geographically so don't want to generalize here.
I've seen utter ignorance from ie older girls to stray dogs dying in the middle of the street, while I was reeling from mild shock sitting on the curb. I guess after few years there I would be desensitised too. Cows have it easy there, other animals not so much by western standards.
Its true that stray dogs specifically are also a potential threat, the picture ain't black & white.
I came here to comment about the same thing.
Extremely saddening to hear this, he was an inspiration growing up as a technologist and entrepreneur. Tata does a lot of philanthropy and does a lot of free cancer treatments, aside from all the great industries he has built.
Om Shaanti
He had a great life. Is dying at 86 really unexpected or sad? It seems to me like an expected end. Exactly how long should he live for his passing to be normalized?
Isn’t it normal and human to be sad about someone’s passing, even if it’s expected?
It is. But it is also perhaps interesting to note that most people seem to rate deaths differently depending on the age of the person. A young person cut down in their prime is a special kind of tragedy, so is the death of toddlers and young children. The passing of an old person, who by all accounts have outlived most other people on earth as far as we can tell, is saddening, especially to the people in the near family. But perhaps not shocking and traumatizing, as the other examples might be.
Just observing, not saying that this is how it should be.
[delayed]
Arguably black-bar material. Outside view, it seems like he served a tenure atop a group comparable to Disney, in breadth, scale, and market share across many industries in India, as a magnate. Notably, in the period of massive telecom rollout in India.
Largest wholly owned and most advanced subsea fibre network, carrying around 30% of the world’s internet routes
Note "30% of the world’s internet routes" is BGP burden to other operators, but by the same token, a sign of widely distributed control of networks.
As an investor, "first Indian to buy a stake in Xiaomi" among dozens of startup investments. "Some senior executives from Xiaomi were quoted saying that they would seek Ratan Tata’s advice on how to expand globally."
As a philanthropist, perhaps larger still in relevance to seeding, supporting, & growing the hacker community, his philanthropy on US college campuses in tech, biotech & genetics, and scholarships, serve to support more bright, hungry, creative individuals to learn in the US.
I'm finding it really tough to understand your comment across the flipflopping of formats.
Here’s a clearer and more concise version of your text:
Comment from mcint on HN:
From an external perspective, he can be viewed as a magnate who led a group comparable to Disney in terms of breadth, scale, and market share across multiple industries in India. His leadership was particularly notable during the massive telecom rollout in the country.
He oversaw the largest wholly owned and most advanced subsea fiber network, responsible for carrying around 30% of the world’s internet routes (source: Brave.com’s Llama, via Tata). While the "30% of the world’s internet routes" signifies a burden on BGP for other operators, it also highlights the distributed control of global networks.
As an investor, he was the first Indian to acquire a stake in Xiaomi, among many other startup investments. Some Xiaomi executives even noted that they sought Ratan Tata’s advice on global expansion.
As a philanthropist, his contributions are even more impactful. He has supported the hacker community, donated to US college campuses in tech, biotech, and genetics, and funded scholarships to foster talented, driven individuals who come to learn in the US.
This just repeats the whole comment with more words. Please don't copy-paste autogenerated text here unless it adds to the conversation somehow.
Is this a GenAI comment responding to a GenAI comment?
OP was not easy enough to follow to be an LLM, right… right?
(OP, I mean this in the kindest of ways)
How is it more concise if it uses roughly the same amount of verbage?
Throwaway account here, but I think we should be cautious about hero worship.
While it's true that Tata has contributed positively in many areas, there are also significant controversies surrounding his legacy—like leasing coal mines for just 25 paise for 999 years before independence(1), among other issues(2)
It's important to consider both the positives and negatives to form a well-rounded opinion. Let's aim to be informed and objective rather than blindly idolizing anyone.
(1) https://www.firstpost.com/business/a-tata-coalgate-999-yr-mi...
I too am a big fan of not supporting hero worship. But what we should recognize is the deeds that they perform and the values that they uphold rather than supporting them in everything they do.
Having met the guy multiple times growing up he always stood out to me as a very humble man that loved the people and the institution he built. His love for dogs was something that helped me be closer to animals.
With regards to the comments about post-independence industrialization, most countries go through that phase where industrialists of the time stand to gain very lucrative opportunities to build value.
Exactly. Contribution ethic vs purity ethic.
> Despite repeated reminders, the company (Tata Steel) didn’t comply with the rules,” the confidential letter reads.
> And when threatened with recourse to the law, “the company started submitting the correct royalty.
IOW they continued doing what they had always been doing, and ignored a bunch of letters saying they should pay more. When the government took a more serious approach they started paying the royalty they were supposed to under the new rules.
Not a great look, but hardly beyond the norm.
Every prominent person will have controversy. Expressing values means choosing one thing over another.
So Ratan Tata was responsible for leasing coal mines in 1946 when he was 9 years old? At those prices, the guy was a **ing prodigy.
This is like aiming for the trees and missing the forest - the corrupt entity here is the Indian government which facilitates such corruption and monopolization and makes it hard for new entrants to compete.
I have no doubt that we humans would find fault with Buddha as well, so I am a little intrigued by this criticism (as someone mentioned he would be 9 years old when coal mining incident happened) but not totally surprised
But yeah, lets find fault with everyone to form a "well-rounded opinion", because that is what we should strive to achieve
Many Indians (esp entrepreneurs) don't realise it, Ratan Tata's conduct is the default expectation how the successful and hyped people in India are to behave (not taking a moral stand, rather a factual one) in the society. He was known to be humble and kind and never made headlines for the wrong reasons. Many would do extensive PR, while he stayed away from the limelight. It's remarkably difficult in a country where the heroes are few and get a huge coverage if they want it.
Whenever a big brand wants to enter India and (due to FDI rules) has to partner with an Indian brand, invariably they go with Tata (Starbucks, Foxconn). The image of being upstanding, clean, and good at execution is hard earned.
An actual news report would be helpful from any of the 15 other submissions OP:
Indian tycoon Ratan Tata dies aged 86
For some context, this is the end of an era for the Tata family.
They've had an odd pseudo nepotistic passing-on-the-torch framework for 100+ years now. The Tatas adopt promising children in the extended family, instead of passing ownership by birth order. Ratan Tata's father was adopted into the extended family, and Ratan later got adopted by the main line of the family to be groomed into heir apparent. Keeping up with the tradition, Ratan never married or had his own children.
Cyrus Mistry, the head of another billionaire family, became one with the Tatas through marriage & mergers. Cyrus was groomed to be the next heir apparent. Unfortunately, he met an untimely death from a car accident in 2022.
2022 marked move away from the century long tradition of keeping it in the family. The new CEO is a self-made man with no relations to the family or the Tatas' shared religion (Parsi). Usually this merit based system would be cause for celebration, but the Tatas hold a paragon-esque reputation among well-run old-money family-owned institutions.
It'll be interesting to see if the company loses it's heart as it slowly morphs into a faceless conglomerate.
RIP to Ratan.
It’s notable here - Cyrus was fired from his Chairman position before his untimely death
As an Indian , this news is absolutely heartbreaking.
Ratan Tata was a gem to India
May his soul rest in peace.
This news has really taken me a back
I am with you.
I am personally feeling bad that he died. Can't remember any time in recent history when a person with whom I have no personal connecting died, and it is impacting me so much
Tata as a company has had near-unrivalled impact on the economy of India. Godspeed. RIP
One of the greatest entrepreneurs in the world. I hope they make a movie on him and his life.
He was one of the few industrialists who gave capitalism a good name. He was never one to do ostentatious displays of wealth or buy islands. He used his vast wealth and influence in the best possible way.
RIP.
They gauge he would've been the richest person in the world at many points, if not for his generous philanthropy
While the internet is flooded with thousands of posts about his demise, this statement you made is what I 100% agree.
I don't think people outside India understand what Tata means. Who Ratan Tata was. He was not some random rich person who did some philanthropy. ~66% of everything that Tata companies make goes back to philanthropy and the people of India. And these days to people where Tata companies operates (I presume). To the TATAs, people are of primary importance. They are a behemoth of a group comparable to Samsung or other big companies/conglomorates.
They don't deceive, they don't put money over people. Because their mission IS to the people. You can buy a Tata product with a level of trust that no other brand can provide. Seeing TATA along with a product is more than enough. They are the best definition of capitalism I have ever come across.
This is why you don't see Ratan Tatas in billionaire's list or rich people's list.
Everything India is because of the Tatas. They single handledly is responsible for building India's foundations. Whether it is in Health, Nuclear, Tech or anywhere. You will see Tata's presence everywhere.
I genuinely shed a tear today morning because of his passing. And I am not sure I would do the same for any other business man.
Today is indeed a sad day. May he rest in peace.
The reputation of the Tata group is not as stellar as it was under the leadership of JRD Tata.
Nonetheless, it is one of the few large industrial groups in India to go above and beyond their commercial interests to look at the interests of Indians as a whole.
I remember the day JRD Tata died. I was still in college then and I had an overwhelming sense of grief over his death. It was a huge loss to lose a man of his caliber and my grief was for the country. With Ratan Tata, it is similar but not on the same scale as JRD.
Probably. I don't think it's possible to please everybody. Also, under Rata Tata, Tata went truly global. I can only presume that it means increased responsibilities & increased issues. JRD Tata didn't go through the same problems as Ratan Tata did. And I don't mean that JRD Tata struggled less. Or more for the matter. The problems were simply different.
There is also the fact that we humans are connected 24/7 unlike previous generations. This also means you don't hear the negativity or problems like we do today about someone. This is the norm these days. If you need to find the same for older generations, you really need to dig through it.
I say this cos everyone I admire from yester generations come out with a lot more mistakes and issues as I learn more about them. I find it humane. It just makes them human. What I admire about Ratan Tata is that he tried to be better person. As much as he can. And he was one of the nicest human as well. That is enough. :)
Om Shanti
Even among the diaspora Ratan Tata is well known and loved. A shining gem in a country full of corruption.
Om Shanti Sir.
I'm sure he was an amazing capitalist, but my experience with Tata consulting was the worst.
I worked for a division of GE during the Immelt years that outsourced large portions of IT to Tata, and was in charge of the transition.
It was a masterclass in waste and inefficiency.
Definitely one of the larger nails in the coffin of a former Fortune 5 company.
Have same thing to say. I worked for a very large e-commerce company in India, who when they were building their DC, contracted TCS. TCS gave a nightmarish experience on execution and ethics. They were horrible.
He was very humble person , never showed off his wealth, and mostly followed responsible capitalism, these are the reason why many indians see him as an inspiration. RIP sir
May he rest in peace, his name will be remembered and impact felt for long.
This is a huge blow. For those not familiar with the history of Tata group of companies and their influence over India, they will not understand the significance of this death.
JRD Tata and Ratan Tata are among the most honorable men with pure hearts, never affected by avarice or hatred. Tales of their generosity and kind hearted nature will continue to inspire me.
They are shining examples of how capitalists can help uplift society.
RIP
Om Shanti
For those who don’t know, Om shanti means may he rest in peace.
Its usually chanted during cremation as Oooooommmmm Shantiii.
Om (the same sound as you chant during yoga sometimes) in this context is like a moment of silence
Shanti means peace, in this context, eternal peace.
As someone who stays far from politics, ratan tata and tata group in particular are the extraordinary entities who do opposite of enshitification.
They dont cut corners (like everyone) and are highly regarded as being genuinely good.
Case in point. From a tax perspective, historically reliance indistries was always known for being sneaky around taxes, dodging taxes, finding loopholes and such.
Tata OTOH, they are historically regarded as being much more honest and trustworthy in this regard.
Tata could have been much, much bigger. But to the extent they could get away with it, they refused to pay bribes to politicians and government employees (they couldn't refuse to pay "any and all" bribes, for they would have been shut down completely if they took that posture).
yeah. there is a difference between "Speed money" and actual bribes for officials to look the other way when you are doing clearly not legal stuff.
Huh. I wonder what this man “staying away from politics” using the infamous lobbyist Nira Radia for? Oh I remember lobbying and manipulating the telecom licences.
It’s okay to like this guy but Tatas are considered saints because not many know their history.
Who does the torch pass to now that he’s gone?
He was in a chairman emeritus position for many years now.
Since Tata, Cyrus Mistry and Natarajan Chandrasekaran have headed the conglomerate.
Cyrus Mistry died in a car crash a couple of years ago.
Om Shanti
om shanti.
Om Shanti
RIP, as one says.
That being said, it always irks me when people worship "philantropic" billionaires. I'm sure he's done good things. But there are no ethical billionaires in capitalism. TATA is a giant corp with a lot of influence, I can't believe that they're a 'honest company which doesn't bribe, pays their taxes and are otherwise clean'.
Would probably be the first case of an ethical corporation/billionaire :)
Certainly cool that he helped stray dogs and people with cancer, but come on people, see through the corpo propaganda. Sounds the same to me as "[INSERT US BILLIONARE] has donated 5 milion dollars to [CUTE CAUSE], what a hero! (ignore the atrocious things done by their corps and themselves)."
How exactly do you plan to do business in India without the bribes?
In fact after a certain scale you need to bribe in the US too. It’s just that it’s legalized in the US as lobbying and PACs.
Sure but you have to grade on a curve. When you actually see how some of their peers act, compared to them, the Tatas are gems.
Sure, yeah. My reactionary, immature answer to this is, "someone who has murdered a single person is not that bad when compared to a serial killer", but i certainly get what you mean :)
One of the best humans of the world