• ballenf 9 hours ago

    The inspiration here was getting root on the Switch 2. Getting root in Linux was the POC. The goal was not demonstrating some fundamental security vulnerability that's practically exploitable, but instead for reclaiming actual ownership of one's own hardware without breaking TPM or game ring 0 anti-cheat.

    • vessenes 9 hours ago

      I like this. Upshot - electrostatic bit flip on memory read or write, which with solder can deterministically get a 'safe' pointer mutated into your own evil pointer.

      Generally the historical perspective on physical access was: "once they have it, game over." TPM and trusted execution environments have shifted this security perspective to "we can trust certain operations inside the enclave even if the user has physical access."

      His next steps are most interesting to me -- can you get something (semi-) reliable without soldering stuff? My guess is it's going to be a lot harder. Lots of thought already goes into dealing with electrical interference. On the other hand, maybe? if you flip one random bit of a 64 bit read every time you click your lighter, and your exploit can work with one of say 4 bit flips, then you don't need that many tries on average. At any rate, round 2 of experimentation should be interesting.

      • onionisafruit 8 hours ago

        > if you flip one random bit of a 64 bit read every time you click your lighter

        Without the antenna it would be hard to limit it to a single bit getting flipped. At least that’s what I suspect.

        • Retr0id 8 hours ago

          On the flip-side (heh) flipping multiple bits at once should make it possible to bypass ECC

          • Lance_ET_Compte 5 hours ago

            You'd likely take an exception for a multi-bit error and the handler would likely just retry the read. Single-bit errors are often just corrected on the fly by ECC logic as you mention.

            • echoangle an hour ago

              If you can induce enough correct errors (yes that is contradicting), the ECC won’t be able to detect the error because the modified data is correct again. The ECC schemes I’ve seen used can correct 1 bit and detect 2 bit error, so 3 flips at the right position would be enough to get new data that would be valid again.

          • vessenes 8 hours ago

            we need a tinfoil waveguide clearly

        • i4k 7 hours ago

          This was very well written and an amazing challenge but my brain is wired to that "hacking common sense" that if you have physical access then it's already over... the first thing that came to my mind was that, if you have physical access, then you can reflash the BIOS, install a driver backdoor, you can boot a live OS and then it's just a matter of tampering /etc/{passwd,shadow,groups, etc} ...

          but I remembered that most of the physical access hacks would not be possible if the disk is encrypted.. which then makes this kind of hack enormously attractive.

          The antenna idea can be extended to be a piece of hardware with the interference device built-in (piezo or whatever) which communicates with the external world with any wireless medium and then the attacker can trigger the interference remotely. This, plus a website controlled by the hacker which the victim is scammed to visit can be enough to make it viable.

          • 333c 7 hours ago

            The motivation in the introduction is rooting/jailbreaking a handheld game console. I think this is a perfectly plausible situation where you have physical access but still want to obtain "unauthorized" access.

            • ruslan an hour ago

              AFAIC, reflashing BIOS won't give you anything, you need to sign it first with proper private key which is checked by the CPU hardware before execution begins. This EMI trick fools CPU itself and I cannot see how it can be fixed, unless new paging algorithm is invented.

              • themoonisachees 13 minutes ago

                This specifically is trivially defeated by ECC, though it wouldn't be that much harder to instead flip 3 bits and ECC would be unable to help. ECC has very poor penetration outside the server world though, so we're still safe. For now.

              • johnisgood 7 hours ago

                > I remembered that most of the physical access hacks would not be possible if the disk is encrypted..

                Only if you have not booted into your system through using a keyfile or a passphrase to decrypt the data, i.e. if your PC is shut down. I have full disk encryption, and when I boot into my system, it uses the keyfile with which it would perform the decryption, and boom, I have my PC ready to be accessed physically.

              • zephyreon 9 hours ago

                My immediate thought was that this was a post about how someone got root access to a cigarette lighter and I was totally ready to believe it.

                My parents oven gets regular software updates so I didn’t even question whether the cigarette lighter was “smart.”

                • onionisafruit 8 hours ago

                  From the title I half expected an incendiary version of rubber hose cryptography.

                  • sim7c00 3 hours ago

                    ooh i want a smart lighter, so i can use my phone in one hand to light the lighter in the other hand :O

                    • medstrom an hour ago

                      Sell pyromaniacs this product, find the lighter two months later in a burned-out building, use it to identify which phone did it, catch perp.

                  • intothemild 9 hours ago

                    This reminds me of exploits we used to do to arcade cabinets back in Sydney in the 80's and 90s. The school gas heaters used to have what we called "clickers", piezoelectric ignition devices you could remove from the heaters.

                    You then took that clicker to your local arcade, and clicked one of the corners of the CRT, that would send a shock through the system and add credits to your game. I believe this was because the CRT was grounded on the same ground lines that the mechanism for physically checking a coin had gone through the system.

                    Suffice to say, they caught onto this over time, and added some form of an alarm into it. But up until then... Those were truly the best times.

                    • TowerTall 6 hours ago

                      We did the exact same thing early 80's except that we used the clicker found in disposal lighters.

                      We did it for a couple of years until they figured it out and started to conver the arcade cabinets with transparent plastic.

                      At the same time they also drilled holes at the back of the machine for ventilation as the rest of the case now was sealed in plastic.

                      We found out that using a bamboo stick you could press the lever that register when a coin has been paid into the slot.

                      That made them relocate the holes for the ventilation to the top of the case instead of the back so we couldn't get the lever anymore. Or so they thought. haha

                      We discovered that by pressing a coin up the return slot — the one where you get your coin back if it isn’t accepted — you could also trigger the lever for coin registration and the free gaming continued.

                      Eventually they put in sharp screws into that coin return box so you would cut your finges.

                      After that we got a SEGA. Was great fun :)

                      • throaway89 35 minutes ago

                        I always wondered why arcade cabinets were covered in plastic. Till now i thought it was for spills or something.

                        • jacobgkau 6 hours ago

                          At what point does the arcade just kick you out? I can't imagine them seeing you continuously tamper with their equipment to circumvent paying and think, "the best way to handle this is to keep modifying our machines."

                          • bityard 4 hours ago

                            Arcades were big dark noisy rooms, and quite often had only one or two people on staff who were usually either busy dealing with other customers and were paid far too little to care about the owners' profit margins. They were basically there to hand out prizes to little kids for the ticket machines and make sure nobody walked out with Dig Dug on a hand cart.

                            • cutemonster 5 hours ago

                              Maybe the staff at the arcade, aren't the owners of the place, so they don't personally care that much. They'd rather be friends with everyone, than to be the "angry police"? (And I'm guessing the tampering players were nice people to have around)

                              And the technicians "improving" the machines -- maybe they had a good time too, I'm wondering. @TowerTall and friends made their job more interesting / fun?

                              • an_ko 5 hours ago

                                If you kick someone out, you lose them as a customer, and they'll tell all their friends about the free play trick out of spite, so you'll have to patch the machine anyway.

                                • jacobgkau 5 hours ago

                                  You're making me wonder what the stats are for how many people try to abuse arcade machines in a country like Japan versus the United States. (Not that people in any country are gonna be entirely honest, but the entitlement to break the system and the comfort to brag about it seems cultural.)

                                  In fact, that could be why some of the machines weren't better protected against that stuff in the first place, right?

                                  • szvsw 2 hours ago

                                    There are some great scenes in Rebels of the Neon God [1992] by Tsai Ming-Liang (Taiwanese filmmaker) where the main characters steal the main pcbs from some arcade machines and try to resell them to the arcade owner lol. Wonderful film, recommend it - some great scenes in those arcades.

                            • giancarlostoro 8 hours ago

                              Reminds me of an arcade machine a friend would get behind, turn it off and back on, and it would give you a free token. Maybe its designed that way so the employee can test it for free, not sure. But he climbed behind it, and proceeded to play for free.

                              • IWeldMelons 8 hours ago

                                Those who lived in USSR remembers soda vending machines (they poured your drink in a glass cup; you were expected to wash it before using by pressing on a cup, which stood upside down on plastic plate with holes, kinda inverted shower head; very unhygienic, I know). Well it had a button behind that let you have a free drink. You could also "upgrade" pure carbonated water (1 kopeyek) to a sweet soft drink (3 kopeyek) by pressing another button. needless to say schoolchildren would abuse the hell out of this "feature".

                                • everforward 7 hours ago

                                  > you were expected to wash it before using by pressing on a cup, which stood upside down on plastic plate with holes, kinda inverted shower head; very unhygienic, I know

                                  Those systems are occasionally used in bars in the US, though they've dropped the whole plate and it's usually just arms where the holes are.

                                  To my understanding, at least in the US, they aren't used for deep-cleaning anything. That happens with soap and water in the back still. The upside-down-showers are used to clean out the dregs of someone's glass when they get a refill (you give them a glass, they give it a quick rinse, refill it and hand it back), and as a quick rinse for new glasses to clean up water stains/detergent residue and anything that might have fallen in since they were cleaned (hair, dust, etc).

                                  • IWeldMelons 7 hours ago

                                    Yes right, the key difference that the were used to clean between uses by different customers; this is clearly insufficient; at least because a good deal of customers - drunks, children, people with mental issues would not wash at all before use, a good vector for disease spread. Late USSR I happen to remember always had problems with hepatitis spread, which is considerably less of a problem today, due to adoption of disposable food containers/utensils.

                                    • JamesSwift 5 hours ago

                                      Its been a long time since I worked in a bar, but in the front-of-house we used a three-sink station where the sinks were: soap, water, sanitizing-solution. Then you sit the glasses to drip-dry.

                                      Actually here is a link explaining it: https://www.webstaurantstore.com/article/620/three-compartme...

                                      • stavros 5 hours ago

                                        I've seen something like this in the Netherlands, although even more disgusting: They take the used glass, dunk it in a bucket that has brushes all around and in the middle and is full of soapwater, rotate the glass three times against the glass, take it out, and pour the beer in the glass.

                                        Yes, the glass's sides are still full of the disgusting soapwater from the bucket that's now basically 95% other people's drink dregs.

                                      • baud147258 7 hours ago

                                        I think for beer there's a reason of bringing the glass to a colder temperature, which (from what I've heard) should reduce the amount of foam (not sure that's the exact term) in the glass.

                                        • everforward 5 hours ago

                                          Oh, are the lines refrigerated or otherwise thermally controlled? I always presumed it was regular tapwater; i.e. probably slightly below room temp, but not much.

                                          Mileage obviously varies, but the "beer nerd/snob" bars I've been to simply don't re-use glasses without a full wash. They'd rather just charge a little more to hire more dishwashers and be able to absolutely guarantee that there's no leftover beer/water in your glass when they refill it, and that the glass is refrigerated if that's something they want.

                                          I've always heard the head/foam had more to do with how you pour the beer (more impact/movement = more foam), but it makes sense that temperature affects it as well. There's some kind of official course on how to pour Guinness to get the correct head on it. I don't remember the whole thing, but it was something about holding the glass the correct distance from the tap and tilting it so that the beer "slides" down the side of the glass rather than a direct perpendicular impact with the beer already in the glass (which makes more foam).

                                      • jcrash 7 hours ago

                                        > pressing on a cup, which stood upside down on plastic plate with holes, kinda inverted shower head

                                        I think they still use these in bars

                                        https://barsupplies.com/collections/glass-washers

                                      • everforward 7 hours ago

                                        I believe some of those early arcade games were more electrical engineering than software engineering, so perhaps it was easier to set it up that way?

                                        To my understanding some of those early arcade games also had jumpers to control some of the behavior. It could be that a tech set the "free credit on reboot" jumper and forgot to reset it when they were done.

                                      • astrostl 6 hours ago

                                        This also worked in the USA. By the 1990s most arcades operated on proprietary tokens rather than coin currency. Many had skill-gambling machines that had sliding rows covered in tokens, that you would try to dislodge with your own tokens and keep what was displaced.

                                        The "Jungle Jive" version of this would dispense tokens out the opposite side of the machine if the electric ignition of a cigarette lighter was used to lightly shock the metal intake slot. If you clicked it too much too quickly it would go into an alert mode. While this could be accomplished solo, the ideal MVP setup was a team of three: one scout to watch for employees, one to click, and one to collect.

                                        • chasd00 8 hours ago

                                          This brings back a vague memory of smacking the side of a pinball machine just right and getting a free game. I bet it was the same concept.

                                          • intothemild 8 hours ago

                                            I imagine (with zero research) that the mechanism for adding credit would be the coin goes through a slot, and either itself completed a circuit, or the coin as it travels moves some lever to complete a circuit. So I imagine if you hit the machine just right, you'd also move that lever.

                                            • candlemas 8 hours ago

                                              Just like The Fonz.

                                              • DonHopkins 6 hours ago

                                                Henry Winkler is actually just as cool as the character he played!

                                              • devmor 8 hours ago

                                                You were likely causing the spring-loaded mechanism that detects a coin insertion to make physical contact.

                                            • j0hnyl 3 hours ago

                                              I remember reading about this in this book, about the hacker named Pengo who was known for adding credits to arcade games in the same manner.

                                              https://www.amazon.com/CYBERPUNK-Outlaws-Hackers-Computer-Fr...

                                              • luismedel 7 hours ago

                                                This trick worked in Telefonica's phone booths in Spain in the 90s too :-)

                                                • zxexz 6 hours ago

                                                  I remember when Verizon phone booths in the US started accepting the credit cards, for a while they would accept any 16-digit number with a valid IIN that passed the Luhn check.

                                                  • Scoundreller 2 hours ago

                                                    Toronto’s parking meter boxes were like this. They just had GPRS so they’d do an overnight dump (possibly a part of their data deal with the telecom back when data was actually saturated during the day).

                                                    So people were using cancelled or empty prepaid visa/mastercards.

                                                    Initially they’d just push out blacklists.

                                                    Once they really caught on, they did a firmware upgrade to do online verification and it took fooooreeeeveeeeerrrrr to do a credit card purchase.

                                                  • chrisweekly 7 hours ago

                                                    I vaguely remember (sometime in the 80s) sticking a straightened paperclip into a small hole on the face of a payphone to avoid having to drop a dime / quarters, and being able to call anywhere.

                                                    • 8ig8 6 hours ago

                                                      If I recall, you’d stick the straightened paperclip into one of the holes on the mouthpiece and touch the other end of the paperclip to some metal part on main phone body.

                                                      War Games used a pull tab from an aluminum can to a similar effect?

                                                      (It’s been a while.)

                                                  • beeflet 2 hours ago

                                                    how did you stumble across this one?

                                                    • roymurdock 5 hours ago

                                                      super cool

                                                    • mmsc 5 hours ago

                                                      Not only is it a fun exploit, this is also a cool mini-introduction to how caching works for CPUs.

                                                      I remember a year ago or so there was a submission here which detailed how computers work and are build starting at the tiniest part: starting with logic gates, IIRC. Anybody remember what that website was?

                                                    • echoangle an hour ago

                                                      Can someone explain why the EMI would cause a Bitflip and not always a high read? Why would a pulse invert the signal that’s read? Don’t the voltages effectively get added?

                                                      • amenghra an hour ago

                                                        It depends on how the analog signal is encoded. In some protocols, a 1 is encoded as high-then-low and 0 is encoded as low-then-high.

                                                        • echoangle an hour ago

                                                          Ah good point, I was assuming simple TTL where signal level is the bit that’s transferred, RAM is probably using something more complex

                                                        • missinglugnut an hour ago

                                                          You need to think of EMI as having a magnitude and a direction. Half the time you are adding a negative voltage.

                                                          • echoangle an hour ago

                                                            Since he’s using a Piezo lighter, shouldn’t it be just a single DC pulse like discharging a capacitor?

                                                            • missinglugnut 34 minutes ago

                                                              I was confused on the lighter type so I deleted that part of my response. I think you're correct but I can't say for sure.

                                                        • _ache_ 2 hours ago

                                                          I followed him on mastodon, the article is cool too. On Mastodon, there is a video of the root access where one can see the screen.

                                                          https://mastodon.xyz/@retr0id@retr0.id/113252910481164528

                                                          • roymurdock 8 hours ago

                                                            "It's just one resistor (15 ohms) and one wire, soldered to DQ26. The wire acts like an antenna, picking up any nearby EM interference and dumping it straight onto the data bus."

                                                            really neat hack. using the lighter to create EM interference. better go light up next to my DDR bus and see what happens :)

                                                            • treflop 4 hours ago

                                                              I thought OP was going to do this without soldering anything.

                                                              But I feel like soldering something is no different than just like splicing a telephone cable in half and putting your own headset in the middle…

                                                              Except instead of putting a headset, you crudely use a lighter…

                                                              • Pikamander2 8 hours ago

                                                                When I saw the title, I was expecting this to be about hacking a modern car with one of those USB-C cigarette lighter devices.

                                                                • ano-ther 9 hours ago

                                                                  Sure, if you solder an antenna to your memory first :-)

                                                                  But good and thorough write-up about how to actually exploit such a glitch.

                                                                  And you could also use the cigarette lighter for hanging out at the data center back door and wait until the admin comes for a smoke.

                                                                  • Retr0id 9 hours ago

                                                                    > This should theoretically work with bit-flips in any bit position between 29 [...] and 12 [...] Therefore, soldering the antenna wire perhaps isn't totally necessary, if you can generate strong enough electromagnetic interference

                                                                    • abound 6 hours ago

                                                                      Mentioned elsewhere in this thread, but you need not only "strong" but "highly directed" electromagnetic interference. Each of those pins is ~0.5mm, flipping a single bit "wirelessly" is probably impossible, as your inference will cause issues in many more places than just your target.

                                                                      Maybe that unlocks different and exciting hacks, maybe it just melts your machine.

                                                                    • hardburn 9 hours ago

                                                                      Down in the "practical use" section, one use case is bypassing copy protection on consoles.

                                                                    • QuiDortDine 9 hours ago

                                                                      You know when your employee quits how you have to block all their accounts? Now imagine they have access to the server room!

                                                                      • hinkley 2 hours ago

                                                                        I find the idea of being escorted out of the building after giving notice a bit insulting. I’ve been interviewing for weeks, I’ve probably been holding this piece of paper since last night when I printed it out at home.

                                                                        I’ve had plenty of time to fuck with things before I told you I was leaving. You’re just screwing over my coworkers by taking access to me away with zero notice.

                                                                        • pantulis 9 hours ago

                                                                          And that's why server rooms should have proper physical security.

                                                                          • appendix-rock 9 hours ago

                                                                            And why “they’ve got physical access, so all bets are off” isn’t an excuse to stop trying

                                                                            • yjftsjthsd-h 7 hours ago

                                                                              I don't follow; isn't this proof that physical access does trump everything else?

                                                                            • amelius 9 hours ago

                                                                              And be wrapped in tinfoil.

                                                                            • 0xdeadbeefbabe 7 hours ago

                                                                              This kind of work can't be done under pressure at least not a PoC.

                                                                            • sfc32 2 hours ago

                                                                              I read it as "Can you get A root with only a cigarette lighter?"

                                                                              • oluckyman 15 minutes ago

                                                                                Depends how desperate for a smoke the other person is.

                                                                              • antaviana 3 hours ago

                                                                                I thought this was about getting the root password by burning the sysadmin with a cigarette lighter (https://xkcd.com/538/)

                                                                                • tinix an hour ago

                                                                                  reminds me of using a modified milty zerostat to use the spark gap to induce emp for glitching.

                                                                                  • rcakebread 2 hours ago

                                                                                    Just burned my sysadmin with a lighter. The root passwrod is "OWWhAThtefuck'.

                                                                                    • CartwheelLinux 9 hours ago

                                                                                      >I only want glitches to happen on-demand, not all the time.

                                                                                      >My injected ELF also flushes the page cache

                                                                                      The difference between a padawan and a jedi

                                                                                      Amazing write up and bonus points for the reproducibility of this creativity.

                                                                                      • KolmogorovComp 8 hours ago

                                                                                        Just wanted to say it was an amazing write-up.

                                                                                        • pantalaimon 3 hours ago

                                                                                          Three men on a boat.

                                                                                          With four cigarettes, but no lighter.

                                                                                          How are they going to smoke?

                                                                                          • i4k 2 hours ago

                                                                                            they throw 1 cigarette overboard :-)

                                                                                            • hinkley 2 hours ago

                                                                                              That’s worse than the elephant joke.

                                                                                          • sim7c00 3 hours ago

                                                                                            fun read. wonder if someone can do it with one of those lemon batteries, u know.. when life gives u lemons... get root!

                                                                                            • einpoklum 2 hours ago

                                                                                              I can get root with only a spoon!

                                                                                              However, I'm not sure the kind of root you want unless you're into horticulture.

                                                                                              • mensetmanusman 8 hours ago

                                                                                                Next, a balloon and carpet!

                                                                                                • sim7c00 3 hours ago

                                                                                                  socks! and kickng device thru the room!

                                                                                                • _trampeltier 5 hours ago
                                                                                                  • jojobas 9 hours ago

                                                                                                    Back in the day of analog electronic locks a piezo zap into the lock case would unlock 4 out of 5 apartment building locks, root access IRL.

                                                                                                    • adrian_b 8 hours ago

                                                                                                      ...

                                                                                                      "Finally, I'd like to thank JEDEC for paywalling all of the specification documents that were relevant to conducting this research."

                                                                                                      • mimentum 9 hours ago

                                                                                                        I read this wrong.

                                                                                                        • m3kw9 6 hours ago

                                                                                                          I’m gonna do one with “ Can You Get Root With Only my bare hands?”

                                                                                                          • _joel 7 hours ago

                                                                                                            Nice trick, now do it with cosmic rays!

                                                                                                            • smcl 8 hours ago

                                                                                                              I reckon you can get a root with just a cigarette lighter if you hang around outside the right bars in Australia

                                                                                                              • Stefan-H 7 hours ago

                                                                                                                And worst case there is always the rubber hose.

                                                                                                                • jacobgkau 5 hours ago

                                                                                                                  I think you misunderstood the Australian slang. That person was not referring to the XKCD concept. They were referring to another meaning of the word "root."

                                                                                                                  • Stefan-H 4 hours ago

                                                                                                                    Ha! Thanks for the elucidation. My assumptions around the GP did include the assumption of sex, but it was more in a honeypot context rather than as an end in an of itself.

                                                                                                                  • twelve40 6 hours ago

                                                                                                                    ...or a $5 wrench

                                                                                                                • mikewarot 8 hours ago

                                                                                                                  >Can You Get Root with Only a Cigarette Lighter?

                                                                                                                  No, you can't. That long lead to couple your ersatz pulse generator defeats all the engineering put into making the computer reliable and quiet in the EMI sense.

                                                                                                                  Circuit bending is fun stuff, but it's not a remote exploit.

                                                                                                                  • jasongill 7 hours ago

                                                                                                                    Where in the article does he say this is a remote exploit?

                                                                                                                    • _joel 7 hours ago

                                                                                                                      The old saying of "if you've got physical access, game over", is where this applies.

                                                                                                                      • RIMR 3 hours ago

                                                                                                                        This guy literally got root using a cigarette lighter, and your attempt to debunk it is to suggest that physical exploits don't count?

                                                                                                                        If you only care about remote exploits, fine, but don't go scolding others for accomplishing things you can't.

                                                                                                                        • mikewarot 7 minutes ago

                                                                                                                          Do it without the precisely connected wire, and then you can say "only a cigarette lighter" as mentioned in the title, otherwise it's click-bait