I don't think the decline of minivans is because of "uncoolness"; I blame the US auto industry that doesn't want to sell anything but SUVs.
Our family was shopping last year for a new minivan to replace our aging Odyssey--our kids are bigger now, but we still go on trips together. We looked for Siennas and Odysseys, but nobody had a good selection in stock, and the newer models felt more cramped with worse visibility than the old ones. I felt that we were not being given the choices we wanted and were being herded toward SUVs.
There are also basically no wagons anymore. Apparently everything has to be a high-off-the-ground poor-visibility pedestrian murder machine to be profitable for the auto industry anymore.
Fuel economy standards should be fixed so that vehicles with truck chassis are treated the same as cars, tax loopholes advantaging truck chassis should be closed, there should be much stricter legal requirements for driver view of nearby low objects, possibly urban areas should have special 10 mph lower speed limits for SUV-sized vehicles, and there should be much higher financial liability for pedestrian/cyclist injuries, possibly piercing through directly to manufacturers.
Otherwise, car design has been a race to the bottom.
Subaru still makes them. I would buy something else since I hate the anti privacy of the company and cars but it's all I can easily get
The Grand Caravan (not the Pacifica) is an extremely sorted-out vehicle. I bought a 2019 which was supposed to be the last model year, but they had enough demand to continue manufacturing them in 2020. Ultimately it was uneconomical to bring them into compliance with current regs so that was the end of the line for them. It has exciting features such as physical buttons on the dash, remote start on the fob, a touchscreen only for the Garmin navigation system (no subscription needed) and seats that fold flat into the floor. The 3.6L Pentastar engine is a workhorse and it tows like crazy. Traction control and ABS perform as expected. City MPG is lackluster but on the highway it does very well.
I miss my T&C, the stow-and-go seating was probably the best feature I've ever owned in a car.
I do not miss the 3.6L Pentastar. I thought the rocker arm ticking would eventually kill the engine but the electrical system took care of that way ahead of time. (Buy a refurbished TIPM while they're still available). I see people around me proudly driving their tricked out Grand Cherokees and all I can think is "you got screwed".
Apparently they can haul 50+ sheets of 4x8 plywood with the door closed (and without removing the seats).
Whoa. That's ~3000 pounds.
If it's 50 sheets of 1/8" balsa wood, it's about 166 lbs.
If it's 50 sheets of 1.25" lignum vitae, it's about 13,100 lbs.
3000 lbs seems like a reasonable estimate.
Is it?
How heavy is a sheet of unspecified plywood?
1 1/8” Plywood - 85 lbs 3/4” Plywood - 61 lbs 5/8” Plywood - 50 lbs 1/2” Plywood - 41 lbs 3/8” Plywood - 36 lbs 1/4” Plywood - 22 lbs
about 50
I'm not sure it's just the US
We're renting a car in France soon for 4 adults and luggage - I assumed the venerable Espace would be the move, but the hire websites didn't offer them
Looking at the wiki page, it now seems to have turned into an SUV...
Why would the industry want to do anything but sell as many units as possible?
Having low inventory of minivans is consistent with people not wanting them, right?
There are only so many manufacturers of a given vehicle segment. If they all soft collude to stick with higher margin vehicles there's not much consumers can do about it. Car manufacturing isn't a liquid market where new entrants can quickly jump in and undercut the incumbents.
Haven’t seen this mentioned yet but “light trucks” are a classification that has more favorable regulations for automakers. SUVs and pickups qualify.
I’m not an expert on this but minivans as passenger vehicles could be less desirable for the automaker as they have more stringent safety and emission regulations that cut into their margins in those vehicles
Totally. Odyssey availability is a bit better now, but good luck getting a Sienna.
We were in the market and ended up getting a 24 Ody exl. There are some discounted models here and there because of the 25 (very mild) refresh.
My minivan is proof of virility and demonstrates that I am not compensating for anything. It also moves a hell of a lot of lumber when the seats are folded down.
Try that in some bubble shaped car-based SUV or a short-bed pickup.
In the sci-fi series The Expanse, there's a Bezos-style rich tycoon character who flaunts his wealth by purposefully not getting hair treatments and instead allows his male pattern baldness to be on display. He's so rich he can afford to not care what anyone thinks, and he wants everyone to know it.
Interesting anecdote about a work of fiction, but what does it have to do with anything?
The comment is referring back to "not compensating for anything". Choosing to keep a balding head and not caring what other people think is a power move when having a full head of hair becomes trivial.
It's kind of entertaining that both are vanity.
It seems pretty clearly related to the post it is a reply to.
Drawing a moral equivalency to some random event in some random contemporary work of fiction as a means of moralizing isn't some kind of awesome megadunk “own” or anything—it's actually pretty lame.
My current work truck is a minivan with the rear seating rows completely removed.
It hauls whatever needs hauling, and it's quite pleasant to drive in all weather.
(And I dare say that it has competently done a lot more off-road duty than the majority of SUVs and pickup trucks ever will.)
> My minivan is proof of virility and demonstrates that I am not compensating for anything.
Why do people constantly equate what car someone drives with the size of their reproductive organs? I usually only see this from people who reflexively look down on people who own more expensive vehicles than them.
It's weird.
Live your life. Who cares what you or anyone else chooses to drive. I promise you, whatever vehicle you drive, nobody sane actually cares.
If you are driving these things around urban streets where my kids and I are walking or riding bikes, I certainly care what you drive. I'd prefer that it (a) has clear visibility for the driver in all directions, so you can see us, (b) is lower, lighter weight, and traveling slower so you have less chance of killing us, (c) is quieter, and (d) pumps out less air pollution because I don't want to be smelling your exhaust.
If you drive an oversized SUV which you have further lifted off the ground, removed the muffler from, and make exhaust that gives everyone a headache, people are going to assume you are a creepy asshole with no self respect or respect for your neighbors. The vehicle becomes a kind of enraged roar of emotional insecurity, from the "everyone else needs to always be thinking and talking about me, and it doesn't matter why" school of human interaction.
> If you drive an oversized SUV which you have further lifted off the ground, removed the muffler from, and make exhaust that gives me a headache, everyone is going to assume you are a creepy asshole with no self respect or respect for your neighbors.
Or maybe it's just you being weird with your city-dweller assumptions?
It's not "weird" to not want gratuitous nuisance, health problems, or slaughtered children. Indeed, indifference to these seems extremely weird (sociopathic), and I would appreciate it if such people stay far from civilization out in the desert or whatever.
(Though they should also be paying their fair share for the environmental costs of the CO2 emissions they pump out which are putting us on a path toward literal un-livability of the Earth, to which end gasoline should probably cost like $15/gallon.)
> It's not "weird" to not want gratuitous nuisance, health problems, or slaughtered children.
Using outrageous hyperbole in this manner might be even more weird than your original baseless assumptions.
> fair share... of the CO2 emissions they pump out which are putting us on a path toward literal un-livability of the Earth
Your hyperbole is putting on a path toward literal un-livability of the Earth. It's making me nauseous because of how weird it is.
I think you missed the joke.
There's a lot of that on YC.
It is often difficult to pickup sarcasm in text. I did not interpret OP's comment as sarcasm - probably because I've run into that sentiment quite often.
Don't miss the 2003 New York Time article linked inside: https://archive.is/3yox8
It's full of gems, like this:
Eventually, though, the minivan became so indelibly associated with suburbia that even soccer moms shunned it. Soon image-conscious parents were going to soccer games in vehicles designed to ford Yukon streams and invade Middle Eastern countries.
> ford Yukon streams and invade Middle Eastern countries
That could be a verse from the Canyonero ad jingle
Forgetting that the Yukon is a GMC model, I was trying to figure out what words were missing between "designed" and "Ford Yukon", and then, as my mind was on the cusp of finishing grokking the actual meaning of the sentence, what an "Invade (make) Middle Eastern (model)" would look like.
As someone who bought a Honda Odyssey a few months ago, I don't believe this article.
I wanted to save money and buy a used minivan. However, in my area, used minivans (in decent condition) cost nearly the same as brand-new ones, so I got a new one.
Nearly every house in my neighborhood has a minivan parked out front.
They are such useful vehicles.
I can't throw my kids in the back of a truck. And if I'm hauling non-human objects, I usually want to cover and protect it from weather and theft, a minivan does that! A truck... not so much.
I drive a 2009 Sienna with only 96k miles.
Got hooked on them when I bought one to transport my aging parents.
They're fantastic for road trips thanks to the huge field of view and extra storage, and they can double as a camper van for two people if you remove the back seats.
Most guys my age here own oversized trucks but real men drive minivans.
Minivans are a rock bottom alternative to homelessness which is actually pretty cool: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=living+in+a+min...
Old minivans never die, they just fade away. We bought a new Grand Caravan in 2014 (our fifth Grand Caravan) as our "forever vehicle" to last a long time as we were approaching retirement. Now 10 years later it has done only 100k and is still going strong and has long since been paid off. I took part in a focus group for the Chrysler Pacifica that is a bit more upmarket feature and pricewise than the Grand Caravan but otherwise identical. When demand fell the grand caravan was discontinued but they are still selling the Pacificas. I guess the Pacifica and particularly the hybrid version is what counts as "cool" among the non boy racers.
Maybe going full circle. There are some gear heads a couple blocks away - you know the type, always working on cars in the driveway - who seem to be pimping out minivans from the aughts. Refurbing them, painting skulls on them, putting on fancy exhaust systems. I first walked by this a few months back and wondered "are minivans cool now?" Maybe these guys have fond memories of their childhood spent in them and are trying to relive those days?
>There are some gear heads a couple blocks away - you know the type, always working on cars in the driveway - who seem to be pimping out minivans from the aughts.
Car people live for the arbitrage between market sentiment and reality when it comes to older (but not classic) cars. Minivans fall right into that category; insanely useful with powerful engines and good suspension, yet had for cheap with low miles/single owner because "no one wants to drive a minivan anymore".
Tricking out vans has also been a thing since vans were a thing. Which is probably part of why VW is bringing back the microbus (sort of).
I hate reCAPTCHA.
https://web.archive.org/web/20240927122501/https://www.theat...
could also be correlated to people having fewer kids?
The 2025 Kia Carnival is trying hard to sneak the benefits of a minivan into something that can still pass for an SUV.
Yep. Ain't no better way demonstrating your deficiencies in wealth, status, and power than by making an extremely visible choice of "cheap, utilitarian, and unfashionable".
They should have named models for surfing beaches. The VW van used to be Valhalla-mobile for surfers.
I genuinely can't tell if this is sarcasm or not.
Neither can I, but if not it's a hell of a line. Really shows up how pathetic is society's slavery to the concept of "status symbols". Should I buy what does the job best for me personally? No, I'm supposed to follow the herd, otherwise it marks me out in a bad way.
At least when it comes to Siennas, we are supply constrained. Good luck getting a mid trim level one at MSRP. Odysseys are still hard to get in some areas.
The other two are less desirable: Kia's had terrible crash ratings and Pacificas come with Chrysler's poor reliability stigma (somewhat justifiably).
It’s more of a naming change. E.g. Tesla Model X is practically a minivan. It just won’t sell if you call it so.
Model X is no where near as spacious inside as a minivan. I have had a couple of Odyssey’s and they are much more spacious, particularly for the third row seating.
I eventually moved to an Electric Vehicle (Kia EV9) that is quite roomy, but still smaller than the minivan inside.
> Tesla Model X is practically a minivan.
At $80k to start, it's definitely not in the minivan price range.
Prices are a separate issue. Body style - it's right there.
Manufacturers went bananas with the body style naming and it's a shame that car journalist are not correcting them. I keep reading that Tesla Model 3 is a sedan and Model Y is a SUV...
In that world, sure, we won't have anything called a minivan.
Start calling things by what they are and it's solved: - Toyota Sienna - minvivan - Tesla Model X - minivan - Kia EV9 - minivan - Tesla Model Y - hatchback
And suddenly we're exactly where we were 20 years ago.
minivan == car chassis
suv == truck chassis
They're probably dying for the same reason cars are.
Toyota Sienna == Toyota Highlander
It's all the exact same chassis, drive, suspension, pretty much you name it except the doors and body style. So that's not quite true...
SUV is a poor term, nowadays it's largely used to refer to crossovers/CUVs, which have unibody car chassis and are really just station wagons with some extra clearance. The nomenclature may be a lost battle at this point, but the rise of CUVs (which are certainly cars, not body-on-frame trucks) is what killed minivans and sedans.
> is what killed minivans and sedans.
Sedans died years ago - pretty impractical body type. The only advantage over SW is a perceived "prestige".
> suv == truck chassis
What does that even mean? If you meant built on a frame, then sorry, but that's not in the SUVs DNA.
> They're probably dying for the same reason cars are.
Not sure where are you located - cars are doing great.
USA
I'm hoping that part of the Tesla Robotaxi unveiling in nine days is a minivan-esque vehicle.
Give me a cute kei van. Honda NBox isn't cool, but it's not lame either.
> It is the least cool vehicle ever designed
VW Caravelle is pretty cool. Unlike SUVs.
Minivans are not as survivable as a full sized SUV. Also the rear row is basically useless for adults.